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Old 10-16-2019, 08:13 AM
DadOfThree DadOfThree is offline
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Default Beginner question about finger picking

Hi Folks,

I'm a beginner, about 6 months in. I've been doing well and started off learning with a traditional pick. But after reviewing some instructional videos on finger picking, I decided to transition to a thumb pick, and now that feels pretty good. My long-term goals are to learn finger picking as I really like the sound.

Here's my question.
Since I'd like to learn finger picking someday, should I start with some of the basic finger picking techniques to build muscle memory in my right hand? I was thinking of continuing my lessons, (through various resources) but instead of finding the strings with a pick, I'd use the finger picking ideas to assign a finger to each string.
I tried a bit over the last few days and basic beginner songs that I could play well, are much harder because I’m not used to assigning each finger to a string. But, I’m ok with pushing through and practicing, but I’m just wondering if going down this road will hurt my progress, or if this is a decent idea.

Thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I hope my question makes sense; I had a hard time putting my thoughts into words on this one.

Rick
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  #2  
Old 10-16-2019, 08:29 AM
reeve21 reeve21 is offline
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Rick,

I'm not sure there is a right and wrong way to assign the fingers to strings. Some great players only used the thumb and first finger. But the way I learned from Mark Hanson's books was thumb on the bottom three strings and first, second and third fingers on the top three. I don't always do it this way, but it is a good way to start out, I think.

The best resources for me starting out were Hanson's Art of Contemporary Travis Picking book/CD and Toby Walker's short Introduction to Finger picking video course.

These will get you started in the right direction.

Best of luck!
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:32 AM
jklotz jklotz is offline
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Hi Rick. My advice would be to find a local teacher who you can work with for a while. He/she can help you develop proper habits, which is far easier than having to go back and "unlearn" bad habits down the road. The problem with developing bad habits is they may get you to a point, but then you'll hit a road block at some point. Far easier to learn it properly from the git go.
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:33 AM
Oldguy64 Oldguy64 is offline
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Find one of the better beginners finger picking books.
Learn the patterns, learn to play the examples.
Be prepared to take a lot longer to learn the Travis Picking lessons.

After you’ve done that, and gotten comfortable with it, shelve it, and develop a style that works for you.
You will revert back to what you learned...often. But it’s “foundational.”
After the foundation is laid, it’s on you to build on it.

Funny thing is, down the road, knowing how to fingerpick, will give you your own style with a flatpick.
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Old 10-16-2019, 08:36 AM
Taylor814 Taylor814 is offline
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Fingerstyle is more than applying a finger to a note. It's really a method of playing a melody line with the fingers along with harmonization using the thumb. In a sense it's similar to a piano where the bass and treble clefs have been condensed into one clef. In fact, if you look closely at a fingerstyle score you'll see that the sum of all the notes and rests in a measure will add up to twice the beats in the time signature because there are actually two lines represented.

One way to start getting used to this might be to play arpeggios, but there are numerous books on the subject. Mark Hanson has published a number of good ones on learning fingerstyle that you might take a look at. Lastly, although many here may not agree, I think that getting a book on beginning classical guitar could actually be very useful.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:15 AM
mercy mercy is offline
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Get Mark Hanson for a proper foundation. At some point you will vary from one string, one finger but hes a good start. Some great players do it all wrong, especially those that flatpick but they are geniuses. I am not so I have to follow the rules most of the time.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:22 AM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by reeve21 View Post
Rick,

I'm not sure there is a right and wrong way to assign the fingers to strings. Some great players only used the thumb and first finger. But the way I learned from Mark Hanson's books was thumb on the bottom three strings and first, second and third fingers on the top three. I don't always do it this way, but it is a good way to start out, I think.

The best resources for me starting out were Hanson's Art of Contemporary Travis Picking book/CD and Toby Walker's short Introduction to Finger picking video course.

These will get you started in the right direction.

Best of luck!
I think Bob's advice is good, and his recommendations of Mark Hanson's and Toby Walker's lessons are also good.

I learned to play in the mid-1960s with no instructor and for about the first five years of playing made up my own finger picking patterns. I just came up with something that fit the pattern of the song. Later, I learned the Travis pick from a friend. That took me about a week or two to really get that down, but once I did, I had it permanently.

About half of 4/4 songs work with the Travis style pick, and about half work with a picking pattern that I made up during my first years. I also made up my own 3/4 picking patterns.

I have never finger picked with the idea that each finger must have an assigned string, but I also agree with Bob, that for a beginner, it might be better to start out that way to help a new player get the patterns down faster. I think it would be less confusing to have the discipline of that kind of organization. And if that is the way that you play for the rest of your life, I don't see how that would be a problem.

A lot of guitar players feel that however you learn to play something, you're stuck with that. I only know how I am, and that is not the case for me. I have relearned to play different ways over the years without that much difficulty. For example, in learning to play some pieces from Tommy Emmanuel, Pete Huttlinger, and Al Petteway, I learned to use my ring finger for picking, where up to that point (about 50 years of playing) I had used only my thumb (generally with a thumb pick) and my first two fingers for picking. This is just one example. I have relearned how to do quite a few things differently on the guitar once I decided that my old way was limiting me.

Old dogs can learn new tricks if they really want to. A dedicated player can make adjustments and learn new things. Sure, it takes effort, but learning to play tough pieces takes effort, too. An awful lot of learning is about putting in the time. Basic ability helps greatly, but just being talented is not enough. Putting in the time to develop the skills makes all the difference. And an attitude that continual learning and improvement is really the best way to live keeps a person interested in the guitar, or for that matter, any other pursuit in life.

Best of luck to you!

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Old 10-16-2019, 09:26 AM
dneal dneal is offline
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You won't be able to assign a finger to a string, for no other reason than there are more strings than fingers. Your thumb, for example, will have to hit different strings for an alternating bass line.

I like the tab books with simple classical studies. Sor, Carcassi, Carulli and Giuliani in particular have various degrees of simplicity / complexity. You can start with simple PIMA (thumb, index, middle, ring) patterns and expand from there.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:36 AM
dwasifar dwasifar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oldguy64 View Post
Funny thing is, down the road, knowing how to fingerpick, will give you your own style with a flatpick.
Quite true. Learning to fingerpick influenced my flatpicking in a very positive way.
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Old 10-16-2019, 09:50 AM
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ljguitar ljguitar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DadOfThree View Post
Hi Folks,

I'm a beginner, about 6 months in. I've been doing well and started off learning with a traditional pick. But after reviewing some instructional videos on finger picking, I decided to transition to a thumb pick, and now that feels pretty good. My long-term goals are to learn finger picking as I really like the sound.

Here's my question.
Since I'd like to learn finger picking someday, should I start with some of the basic finger picking techniques to build muscle memory in my right hand? I was thinking of continuing my lessons, (through various resources) but instead of finding the strings with a pick, I'd use the finger picking ideas to assign a finger to each string.
I tried a bit over the last few days and basic beginner songs that I could play well, are much harder because I’m not used to assigning each finger to a string. But, I’m ok with pushing through and practicing, but I’m just wondering if going down this road will hurt my progress, or if this is a decent idea.

Thoughts would be greatly appreciated.

I hope my question makes sense; I had a hard time putting my thoughts into words on this one.

Rick
Hi Rick
I taught fingerstyle (intermediate and advanced) for nearly 40 years locally, and yes, learning patterned play with thumb and three fingers provides a solid base for other variants of fingerstyle.

This is not always the way fingerstyle is taught nor pursued. Most just struggle with TAB and learning rote fingerings. This is a very slow way to begin to see many 'patterns' associated with fingerpicking.

Here's a 4 minute video I did for friends and students back in 1012 with my iPhone - It shows four very basic (and highly useful) picking patterns (read the MORE comments section) for building a quick and easy solid base under your fingerstyle technique. It doesn't carry more advanced techniques (on purpose).



I created it in 2012 for new students, and friends who wanted to try fingerstyle. It's only covering simple chords with 4/4 timing. It attempts to introduce patterns. It doesn't cover thumb-n-two or thumb-n-one (Travis picking) techniques. If you learn thumb-n-three it's easier to use less than to learn less and then try to re-educate your fingers later.

This is very basic technique, and can be played with or without thumb picks. The thumb-pick is there for clarity, and being able to use a relaxed thumb position. If you can master enough attack with just the edge of the thumb, it saves the trouble of trimming/reshaping picks - or losing them for that matter.

Hope this adds to the discussion…



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Old 10-16-2019, 10:00 AM
JonPR JonPR is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DadOfThree View Post
Here's my question.
Since I'd like to learn finger picking someday, should I start with some of the basic finger picking techniques to build muscle memory in my right hand?
Yes.
But those techniques don't necessarily require exercises outside of learning actual tunes. The masters of this style learned by copying the masters before them, trying to learn their tunes.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DadOfThree View Post
I was thinking of continuing my lessons, (through various resources) but instead of finding the strings with a pick, I'd use the finger picking ideas to assign a finger to each string.
That's a basic classical concept:
E = ring
B = middle
G = index
D = thumb
A = thumb
E = thumb

- but it's still only a kind of starting position, a foundation, or the most common, average allocations for each string. Not a fixed rule.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DadOfThree View Post
I tried a bit over the last few days and basic beginner songs that I could play well, are much harder because I’m not used to assigning each finger to a string. But, I’m ok with pushing through and practicing, but I’m just wondering if going down this road will hurt my progress, or if this is a decent idea.
It's a decent idea provided you realise the purpose of it - which is to make it all easier and quicker in the end. (That's the idea behind all those classical techniques and positions which seem akward to begin with.)
If you don't start with some kind of string-finger allocation, you could end up moving your fingers chaotically and using excess energy, excess movement.
Having said that, it's pretty natural (common sense) to have the thumb picking the bass strings and fingers picking the others - that's just the way the hand falls when it approaches the strings! It should feel like a pretty natural arrangement.

In folk/blues etc, the most common arrangement is probably thumb and two fingers (index and middle), distributed roughly as above, but thumb often picking 3rd string - sometimes even 2nd - and index sometimes on 4th, maybe even going as far as 5th. It just depends on what one is playing.

The great Merle Travis only used thumb and index! (Check the videos.)

The most important rule (still not 100% unbreakable) is that in alternating bass style - aka Travis picking - the thumb is on the beat all the time. It's a little like downstrokes when strumming - always down on the beat - while the fingers (picking upwards) are kind of like upstrokes between the beats, except that they sometimes pick on the beat too of course. I.e. the thumb is driving the rhythm.
Just occasionally, for specific rhythms - as with strumming - the thumb might break that regular pattern. But the driving thumb is the secret to that style.

NB: not the "independent thumb" - that's a myth, because once you can do it the thumb feels independent, ticking away on the beat while the fingers do the interesting stuff. But in learning, you have to combine thumb and fingers (or at least one finger) from the start: get them organised in their patterns, and in time, as slow as necessary, and keeping a steady beat.
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:26 AM
Veeing Fly Veeing Fly is offline
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Leaving aside the entire issue of which finger(s) cover which string, which is being thoroughly addressed by others here, yes, absolutely start now in order to build the muscle memory. I've been playing more than 35 years, and just this year got serious about fingerpicking. I wish I had started building my skill set years ago, as it feels like I'm a beginner all over again. In a sense, I am.

Best of luck to you, fellow fingerpicking novice!
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Old 10-16-2019, 10:32 AM
erhino41 erhino41 is offline
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Mark Hanson's stuff is excellent and helped me quite a lot.

Learning to use the thumb to pick the bass side EAD strings and assigning the 1 or pointer to the G string, 2 or middle finger to the B string and 3 or ring finger to the high e string is a good way to start. Once you get the hang of it you will naturally understand when this pattern should be broken.

I would start with basic alternating bass Travis picking patterns and go from there. Getting those basic patterns down will have you well on your way to playing many, many songs.
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:04 AM
why2 why2 is offline
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Hi Dad,
I would say over time to try to “learn it all” which is something I have to admit I have not done. Also I would suggest getting started on the finger style earlier than later as it builds a great foundation and versatility in the possible ways to play leads and accompaniment with others in addition to bass and melody accompaniment solo on your instrument.
It doesn’t have to be complex. You can keep it simple and the play can sound really good.

I started playing in the 60’s on a classical guitar my parents gave me for Christmas. That followed up with classical lessons and also strumming Dylan and folk tunes. Classical meant no pick and I did get started on the arpeggio approach to playing chords and simple leads. My thumb nail is pretty solid and I can use it as a pick with the obvious limitations. Using a pick or a thumb pick with a couple of fingers is certainly an option. Tommy, Mark, Chet come to mind.

The classical approach is fingers i, m, and a (basically index, middle and ring (3rd)) on the high strings G, B, and E, with variations all over the place and the thumb primarily handling low E, A, and D with an occasional drop to G. The classical approach also kept the little finger from being planted on the guitar top which I think turned out to be a benefit.

As stated before there are many ways to approach these techniques and “pushing through and practicing” is what it takes. Welcome to the journey!
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Old 10-16-2019, 11:19 AM
G-Money G-Money is offline
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good advice in here, here's my take:
since you've adopted and gotten comfortable with a thumb pick, you are really much of the way there IMO. Now all you have to do is get your three fingers operating the treble strings through practice and habit. I think this is the easier part compared to getting the thumb fluent in striking the three bass strings.

A tip: start by placing the fingers in the resting/ready position - ring on 1st, middle on 2nd, index on 3rd. Resist the temptation to just use middle and 1st or to jumble and mix the string/finger assignments, trust me it will be worth it. The tip is to start by using all three fingers at once to play the three trebble strings at once, sounding whatever chord you choose. This is not only a legit playing style, but gets each of your fingers comfortable and solid in their relationshp to the correct string. Do simple one-two patterns with your thumb hitting one bass string followed by the three treble strings on the two beat, then do the same but alternate the bass note you choose to refine and solidify the ability of the thumb to do a rolling bass.

Once the fingers gain some dexterity, muscle memory and accuracy, you can begin striking individual strings with individual fingers separately on the treble strings. Your 1st finger on the third string will tend to be the strongest and most accurate, so you can start by picking out the 3rd separately while the 1st and second strings stay together at first. The ring finger will take the longest to strengthen, but it will come faster than you think.

As your fingers gain dexterity, I recommend you then move to practicing and up and down pattern from say string 5-3-2-1 (just to keep your thumb and index from colliding by keeping the 4 string unplayed as a separator so to speak). From there I would start working on the "travis picking" pattern which you can learn about youtube. This pattern is very widely used in folk and acoustic rock, sounds awesome and is perfect for improving finger independence because both bass and treble strings alternate but in a simple way.

Above all, I think you're closer than you think and you may not really need to follow a tedious structured lesson from video or a book. Just my opinion though and structure/formality is also good if you have the patience!

edit: just realizing that most of this was already covered, so my basic suggestion here is to use all the non-thumb fingers together at first to ease the awkwardness of individual finger use until finger strength and accuracy are built up...
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Last edited by G-Money; 10-16-2019 at 11:25 AM. Reason: added a line at the end
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