Pickup recommendations for a D28

[Digelectric]

Originally Posted by D35player

LR Baggs Lyric or Anthem. Give a look see. I have Lyric in my D-35

Those look cool. Do they pick up any ambient?

[James May]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

IR can improve the Lyric. Tonedexter can not.

It is different. If you read Tonedexter’s patent, you will see that the process includes comparing the IR with a reference IR which is of course piezo sensor based. If one point of the custom IR falls too far from the reference, it is dumped. That is why Tonedexter, in my opinion can not help the Lyric. I made a whole thread about developing IR for the Lyric. It did better than any EQ I bought (including d-tar, 11 band graphics, TC parametric..)

To set the record straight, the above is not accurate. ToneDexter can indeed correct the Lyric sound. The only issue with the Lyric is that it has a bit of compression internally, and that slows the ToneDexter training down a little. But it still works quite well - we have a number of happy users.

And FYI, the way ToneDexter trains and creates the IR is independent of the type of pickup used. Microphone pickups work just as well as piezo pickups. Magnetic pickups are the exception due to their non-linear nature.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by James May

To set the record straight, the above is not accurate. ToneDexter can indeed correct the Lyric sound. The only issue with the Lyric is that it has a bit of compression internally, and that slows the ToneDexter training down a little. But it still works quite well - we have a number of happy users.

And FYI, the way ToneDexter trains and creates the IR is independent of the type of pickup used. Microphone pickups work just as well as piezo pickups. Magnetic pickups are the exception due to their non-linear nature.

Thanks James for the correction. As you said, the multiband compression involved in the Lyric should not prevent TD to make a decent IR. I made IR from the Lyric that worked. It did not solve everything but did restore the bass and remove the boxy sound.

James can you confirm that there is no assumption on the training process? Is this quote from the patent is still valid:

Testing is done by comparing the quotient vector to a model developed from the known characteristics of stringed instruments. If so, it is added to the accumulator. If not, it is discarded.

I always assumed that pickup was part of the stringed instruments.

In my little experience it is very difficult in a signal to discriminate the contribution of the pickup from the contribution of the guitar body.

Also you posted in the AGF that Tonedexter would mostly correct the response of the pickup rather than recreate the top/body response of the guitar.

So if I understand you well. You think that because the body of the guitar is part of both the pickup and mic signal it will be removed from the equation. In this case only the pickup response is left and can be corrected. That makes sens, but in this case why does the most critical decision in the process involve knowledge on characteristic of strings instruments... since they are out of the equation?

When I made my own process, I wanted to have absolutely NO assumption, Including knowledge on characteristics of sting instruments. I am quite happy with what I did but I am always curious about TD and how you did manage to build a such a knowledge completely independently of the source of the signal: pickup. Even if you did experiments with a hundred guitars, violins, cello... they would all have a pickup in order to perform the process... so how can you be sure that the pickup did not end up participating to that knowledge base?

I know I am too curious James. You don’t have to answer.
Cuki

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Digelectric

I guess I’ve always assumed that the wound pickups like the M1/M80 might sound a bit like a standard electric and not capture as much of the guitar’s acoustic tone. Can you comment?

Magnetic pickups definitely have a reputation for what you say. But many of the better ones aren't that bad. I think the M1a sounds very nice and only a bit electric, the M80 is even better. And magnetics give you better string articulation and clarity than SBT's or UST's or mics do. So it's a tradeoff.

I had an old Seymour Duncan Woody in my toolbox for the past 10 years. Finally got it out and tried it on my beater guitar over the holidays. Sounded TERRIBLE. Hot B string, no warmth, etc. But I also have the M1, M80 and have had the Sunrise, Blackstack and Black Angel and they are all very nice.

I've actually got a Fishman Rare Earth Blend on the way, interested to see how the Mic augments the Mag.

[Digelectric]

Originally Posted by rschultz

I've actually got a Fishman Rare Earth Blend on the way, interested to see how the Mic augments the Mag.

Will you post your impressions when you get it installed?

[rschultz]

Originally Posted by Digelectric

Will you post your impressions when you get it installed?

Sure. Another option is the Seymour Duncan MagMic SA-6. There are a couple used ones on Reverb for ~$150, a fair bit cheaper than the RE Blend. It has fantastic reviews here on AGF. I opted for the RE Blend because it's smaller, less noticeable and more compact inside (no 9v), but others swear it has the best bass and sound of all of them.

[poopsidoo]

I put a LR Baggs Lyric in my 83 HD-28 and am very happy with the sound!

[James May]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

James can you confirm that there is no assumption on the training process? Is this quote from the patent is still valid:
Quote:
Testing is done by comparing the quotient vector to a model developed from the known characteristics of stringed instruments. If so, it is added to the accumulator. If not, it is discarded.

I always assumed that pickup was part of the stringed instruments.

It is still valid. You might want to read this as "... from the known characteristics of stringed instruments as seen through any type of mostly-linear pickup system".

That's the extent of what we can say.