K&K owners unite

[Br1ck]

OK, here goes. I bought a guitar with K&Ks already in it. Yeah, one of the most well loved pickups ever. I plugged in my guitar and instantly hated them. Had a muddier than the Mississippi river with a nasty upper mid resonance that grated on me. My, I was surprised. I even took it into Gryphon just to tell me they were OK. They were. Nothing wrong, but the first thing they did was roll the bass on the Fishman amp almost all the way off, then boosted the highs just a bit. That produced a pretty decent usable tone.

But I have Dazzos in five other guitars. Never have I had to run the EQ anything but flat. Maybe a minor tweak for the room, but never for the pickups. I now fully understand the need for a pre amp with multiple filters and bands of EQ.

I plugged into my track 16 and used the four band EQ to get quite a good sound. Not mic like like I'm used to, but a solid I can live with this tone. But both my pres, A RedEye and a SunnAudio Stage 1 have minimal EQ. I will have Dazzos put in this guitar as soon as I can. I just got used to the pickup frequency match to the guitar custom solultion. Plus Teddy Randazzo can to the installation. Cheaper than a pre that can deal with the K&Ks.

[shufflebeat]

I recognise what you describe but it is the nature of the system that produces that sound that also makes it a great raw signal for the Tonedexter (more £$ spent).

[Groberts]

Originally Posted by shufflebeat

I recognise what you describe but it is the nature of the system that produces that sound that also makes it a great raw signal for the Tonedexter (more £$ spent).

This is why I dislike the K&K. It require a lot of work, outboard gear, $$ to get it as musical as other pickups that are largely plug & play.

I plugged in my K&K equipped Martin acoustic over last weekend and got a nice sound. I was thinking it was better than I remember. Then I plugged in my Martin D-18 w/Baggs Anthem and there was so much more detail and refinement. Once I heard what the K&K was missing, it made me realize the muddy sound the OP mentioned. It needs a lot of work and can be decent. But it requires back flips to get there. LOL

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

OK, here goes. I bought a guitar with K&Ks already in it. Yeah, one of the most well loved pickups ever. I plugged in my guitar and instantly hated them. Had a muddier than the Mississippi river with a nasty upper mid resonance that grated on me. My, I was surprised. I even took it into Gryphon just to tell me they were OK. They were. Nothing wrong, but the first thing they did was roll the bass on the Fishman amp almost all the way off, then boosted the highs just a bit. That produced a pretty decent usable tone.

But I have Dazzos in five other guitars. Never have I had to run the EQ anything but flat. Maybe a minor tweak for the room, but never for the pickups. I now fully understand the need for a pre amp with multiple filters and bands of EQ.

I plugged into my track 16 and used the four band EQ to get quite a good sound. Not mic like like I'm used to, but a solid I can live with this tone. But both my pres, A RedEye and a SunnAudio Stage 1 have minimal EQ. I will have Dazzos put in this guitar as soon as I can. I just got used to the pickup frequency match to the guitar custom solultion. Plus Teddy Randazzo can to the installation. Cheaper than a pre that can deal with the K&Ks.

The Dazzos can sound great. But, they are also not without preamp problems. They require 5-10M Ohm impedance preamp to make them sound good. Your Fishman amp has a 10M ohm preamp built in. That's why it sounds good with Dazzo and bad with K&K, which prefers 500 kOhm to 1M Ohm. Besides the impedance mismatch, the Dazzo produces more harmonics and high end details, and less mids. If a mic like tone is what you're after, the K&K needs a preamp like the ToneDexter. Otherwise, it's just a "good", simple, nearly weightless solution that won't change the acoustic sound of your guitar.

[Mr. Jelly]

Most often I recommend using "systems". As someone has done the research and worked through the issues. If you want to reinvent the wheel then it's allot of study, hit or miss experimentation or luck.

[jonfields45]

My K&K experience was they worked fine for me flat EQ. I like the HFN a little better for tone, but mostly like the lack of permanent glue. I run the HFN with a small bit of treble cut and bass boost when I'm not using my Cuki79 IR.

I've installed a lot of K&Ks and JJBs, probably over a dozen in guitars for friends alone, and I never had a bad sounding install. But that was to my ear and also my good luck.

[6L6]

As you know, Brick, all of my acoustics have K&K's.

When plugging into either my Fishman Loudbox Mini or Fishman Loudbox Performer, I do roll off the bass to about "9:30", set the Mids at almost "off", and turn the treble up to around "4:00".

Very happy with the tone I get that way with no added preamp.

[varmonter]

All my acoustics have k&k. I dont use them anymore. In fact I've given up on piezo pups all together.
If you just play by yourself
At home through a small quiet pa. They
Sound great with a good preamp.
If you play in a band at any sp level
that allows you to be heard in a loud bar
they are pretty much worthless. I now use a baggs m80 soundhole. Or a sunrise soundhole. Just so much better
At volume. If you need to worry about
The Fletcher Munson curve you need to
Worry about using piezos. Of course ymmv.

[Mandobart]

How does this unify K&K owners? Unite in ditching K&K for Dazzo's? Then you won't be K&K owners anymore.....

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

How does this unify K&K owners? Unite in ditching K&K for Dazzo's? Then you won't be K&K owners anymore.....

Typical teaser title with an agenda?

[bobbyg67]

play a k&k d-18 into redeye to soundcraft efx mixer to qsc10. very satisfied with tone etc. can eq from mixer quite well. question is you don't know the difference until you have something to compare it with.

i have a baggs anthem in an orangewood guitar which i seldom play because i have the d98 and om 28 which always get preference when playing out.

i am tempted to pull the baggs out of the orangewood and put it in the d18 as it is my go to guitar. what do you guys think? always looking for improvement. is it worth the trouble?

[Gordon Currie]

Jeez, no one knows their history anymore?

The title is a direct reference to Marx - no, not Groucho, but Karl.

K+K Owners, Unite! You have nothing to lose but a muddy midrange!

[Mr. Jelly]

The problem with everybody's idea about sound it that everybody has an idea about sound.

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by bobbyg67

.....

i have a baggs anthem in an orangewood guitar which i seldom play because i have the d98 and om 28 which always get preference when playing out.

i am tempted to pull the baggs out of the orangewood and put it in the d18 as it is my go to guitar. what do you guys think? always looking for improvement. is it worth the trouble?

i currently have 3 guitars with a pick up in it. Ones a dual source K&K with the mini and a mic, the other is a Schatten HFN dual source with SBT and a Mic and one is the Anthem SL. They all sound good but I think the Anthem is the most plug and play system, meaning to my ears it needs the least amount of EQ to sound great.

The only issue is, like many others, I feel the Anthem UST has changed the acoustic tone of the guitar. It’s not as loud and lacks a bit of low end. But I keep it installed because plugged in it sounds fantastic.

[AeroUSA]

I don’t understand the thread title. The K&K is probably the best ‘pickup’ I’ve ever used but you have to understand what you’re plugging it into and how to EQ it.

Pickups that come with preamps tend to do all this ground work for you (not always for the best!).