What's your cureent fave acoustic pu system ?

[Ed-in-Ohio]

I've settled into three different set-ups, all of which I like:

• K&K --> Fire-Eye Red-Eye --> PA or amp (other than my Carvin AG-200). When going into the Carvin, the pre-amp is not really needed, as the Carvin set to "Hi Z" seems to be perfectly matched to the K&K.
• DTar Wavelength Load-and-Lock --> TC BodyRez --> Anything! IMO, this is a wonderful, bulletproof rig for gigging. The Wavelength is the best UST I have heard, and when it's combined with the BodyRez, one can fine tune it to work with just about any system. Also, the tone pot on the Wavelength is remarkably effective.
• DiMarzio Passive Angel --> Fire-Eye Red-Eye --> Anything. Another wonderful gigging choice. The innate warmth of the Angel makes it an exceptional match for an all-Mahogany guitar. The quality of the Red-Eye really makes a difference in this chain.

Oh, with all of these, whenever possible, I combine an external condenser mic (Audio-Technica Pro37) mounted on my mic stand and pointed at the guitar's 12th fret. I'm usually playing seated and in relatively quiet environments, and my Carvin has a third channel, so this set-up works well.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Doug Young

Nice chart! Possibly the hardest part of your chart to quantify is the ease of install, and it varies with what someone finds "hard", and it's tough to be consistent when each pickup has different challenges. For example, K&Ks involve supergluing 3 separate transducers to the right spot, a fairly tricky process for many people, not to mention the fright factor of hovering over your guitar with glue. You have that as moderate. Lyric involves reaching in and sticking the pickup on with tape. You have that as easy, which makes sense. But Trance also involves reaching in and sticking on 2 pickups with double-sticky tape, but that's "difficult"? The hardest part of most of these installs is drilling the end-pin jack. If you already have one, I'd call all of them "easy", as long as you have the right tools and have had a bit of practice.

BTW: to the OPs question, my favorites are always dual source. I currently have 4 setups that I like:

K&K + internal mic
Dazzo + internal mic
Trance M + internal mic
Barabara + internal mic

The mic's the key to making them all sound good.

Thanks for the comments Doug. As far as install, these were from my personal experience. The glue didn't phase me. But, while the Trance is physically easy to install (minus the turnbuckles and the templates), I find the multiple re installations, to find the right placement, to be a tricky exercise. I will probably augment my chart to reflect your comment, and distinguish what it is about an installation that might be difficult.

[Doug Young]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

Thanks for the comments Doug. As far as install, these were from my personal experience. The glue didn't phase me. But, while the Trance is physically easy to install (minus the turnbuckles and the templates), I find the multiple re installations, to find the right placement, to be a tricky exercise. I will probably augment my chart to reflect your comment, and distinguish what it is about an installation that might be difficult.

Additional info about the challenges might be useful, for sure. I think the Trance suffers a bit from reputation - people have heard that you can make a difference by tweaking, and they do it because they can, not necessarily because they have to to get a good sound. The K&Ks probably could be improved by tweaks to the placement as well, but there's no reasonable way to do that, so you just stick them in, and either you like the result or you don't. With the Trance, because you can move them easily, you are always left wondering if you could get a little better sound...

Another dimension for your chart might be "invasiveness", which is also somewhat subjective, but basically, the degree to which you can't remove the pickup without some type of permanent effect is a common consideration for a lot of people.

[YamahaGuy]

I prefer my Yamaha guitars equipped with the ART. I have an A5R and an AC3R which have the SRT, and though they both sound great plugged in, but my FGX730SCA and my LLX6A sound very natural plugged in. I get many compliments from sound guys about the plugged in sound of the LLX6A especially. Also, for percussive playing and even doing vocals -- yes vocals with the looper-- into the guitar, the ART system is my favorite.

That said, this doesn't help with a Martin. So the ART is a transducer style pickup, so I'd have to go for anything in that vein: Trance lens whatever, K+K, something like that.

[SpruceTop]

As Doug Young mentioned in another thread, the problem with the Trance Amulet systems is that you CAN remount the transducers as many times as you want to find the sweetest spots possible on your guitar! That is, of course, if you have enough permanent tape, and, sadly, Gary Hull of Trance Audio will send you more permanent tape to support your habit should you run low on it!

[Petty1818]

The odd thing with the Trance is that I didn't really notice much of a difference in tone and I tried at least three different placements for the transducers. The only thing I noticed was that when the transducers were closer to the sound hole, I suffered more feedback.

[Marty C]

I travel a lot and try to listen to live acoustic music anywhere I go. At the musician's break, I always go ask about the method of amplified sound. I have heard some great amplified guitars and some very poorly. I think you get a much different perspective listening, moving to different parts of the room and watching the playing style of the guitarists. As oppose to always tweaking your own sound.

I am also in tech support for the printing industry and my job is to look at all the variables involved and reduce as many as I can. When it comes to amplified tone, I think this is why so many people differ in their opinions. If you put a chart together like Dave did and list all the variables, it would be over 100 easy. You could probably get over 100 just in the musician alone.

To the original OP, I would encourage you to go listen to others play the kind of music you like and ask tons of questions.

I was in Appleton, WI this week and was present at a venue called "Mile of Music". So much music it was mind blowing. One of the events sponsors was Bose, so most of the venues had some form of Bose portable amplification. Venues varied from outdoors to tiny, very crowed and noisy pubs, listening venues (coffee shops) and actually a bus.

Was cool to listen to all the different guitars, music types, musician styles and methods of amplification. Wish I could have spent the whole weekend, but I had to leave on Friday. Very cool event. https://mileofmusic.com/schedule/?ar...enre_filter=-1

This was a great overview since all guitars I saw were plugged in. Look at the link and you can see all the various music types. This would be a great place to get a good overview all types and methods of pick ups (as well as their effects chain) since the final unit use to project the sound was a Bose. Sort of level the playing field and took one variable out.

We're any of you guys there either listening or performing? I should have asked before I went so I could have connected and either listened and/r bought you a beer.

Sorry to the OP, got a little off track. Back to my post. Go listen to others and ask questions when you hear something you like. We all hear and process differently what we hear. As well form our opinions about what we like. As for me, my ears are large (superb sound funnels) and I do well in listening room environments. I sneezed last week and my granddaughter said, "someone grab grandad's feet before he flies away".

[Br1ck]

Originally Posted by Vancebo

I really like your table Dave. It is very useful since people are always asking for opinions. You are entitled to YOUR opinion and others are entitled to theirs. It doesn't matter if they agree or not. I can agree with much of your opinion since I have owned many of those and a few others. If you don't mind, will use your format to give our OP my opinion on my favorite pickup system the Dazzo.

Dazzo by Teddy Randazzo
Ease of Install- Easy/moderate
Modifications- End Pin
Acoustic Degradation- none
Natural Tone- very mic like,
Piezo Quack- none. No matter how hard it's played
Weaknesses- Epoxy is used to attach, no on board controls, EQ modifications necessary to cut through a loud band.
Strengths- no battery, sounds good set flat, select pickups to match the voice of your guitar, microphone is not necessary, small EQ adjustments for fine tuning to the room or speaker, sounds like your guitar. Comes with the Italian jacks that hold your cable in better.

I had a Lyric put in my Martin M36. I loved that pickup.........Then I got a Dazzo installed in my Martin 00 15 custom, then in a Pono OP 30, Pono OP12-30, then my Guild D 35. I found myself never taking the M 36 to play out unless I knew I could mic it. I even took it to Griffin to see if there was something wrong. No, it was just a Lyric.

Yesterday my Lyric came loose from the guitar. I took it as a sign. This week a Dazzo gets put in the M 36.

I can plug any Dazzo equipped guitar into my RedEye into the board. Never a need for EQ. It sounds great every time. I've thought of getting an Amulet, but I KNOW I'll like a Dazzo.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

I had a Lyric put in my Martin M36. I loved that pickup.........Then I got a Dazzo installed in my Martin 00 15 custom, then in a Pono OP 30, Pono OP12-30, then my Guild D 35. I found myself never taking the M 36 to play out unless I knew I could mic it. I even took it to Griffin to see if there was something wrong. No, it was just a Lyric.

Yesterday my Lyric came loose from the guitar. I took it as a sign. This week a Dazzo gets put in the M 36.

I can plug any Dazzo equipped guitar into my RedEye into the board. Never a need for EQ. It sounds great every time. I've thought of getting an Amulet, but I KNOW I'll like a Dazzo.

I like Trance systems but I haven't tried a Dazzo system yet but from the good reports, I may just do that. The only alarm I have is the epoxy mounting and brake fluid removal of the Dazzos should I want to try relocating them. Could this be a little harsh on the bridgeplate?

[jonbutcheraxis]

Originally Posted by SpruceTop

I like Trance systems but I haven't tried a Dazzo system yet but from the good reports, I may just do that. The only alarm I have is the epoxy mounting and brake fluid removal of the Dazzos should I want to try relocating them. Could this be a little harsh on the bridgeplate?

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by jonbutcheraxis

Jon, Let me expand on things: Being a fan of The Holy Modal Rounders, extremism, in any form, isn't out of the question as long as I or my guitars can sleep it off.

[M Hayden]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

I had a Lyric put in my Martin M36. I loved that pickup.........Then I got a Dazzo installed in my Martin 00 15 custom, then in a Pono OP 30, Pono OP12-30, then my Guild D 35. I found myself never taking the M 36 to play out unless I knew I could mic it. I even took it to Griffin to see if there was something wrong. No, it was just a Lyric.

Yesterday my Lyric came loose from the guitar. I took it as a sign. This week a Dazzo gets put in the M 36.

I can plug any Dazzo equipped guitar into my RedEye into the board. Never a need for EQ. It sounds great every time. I've thought of getting an Amulet, but I KNOW I'll like a Dazzo.

What are you going to do with the Lyric? I've been curious how one of those would work in an instrument I've got.....

Most of what I use that's self-installable are various SBTs - a FRAP from the 70s, Baggs IBeam, PUTW 54, and such. I've mixed in mics from time to time too, with a Highlander IP-2 mic being easy to install.

Want to try Dazzo pups but only with a tape install. Tried that with a K&K for a friend, where we used tape to get the position right on his OM, and it sounds fine without being superglued. Don't want permanent mods other than engagement of the endpin hole.

I think that good pickup sound is inexorably bound up with a good preamp. A good pre can make a so-so pickup sound ok, while a bad pre can just ruin everything. That's why I use a couple of different pres, since it allows for optimization by device.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by M Hayden

What are you going to do with the Lyric? I've been curious how one of those would work in an instrument I've got.....



Most of what I use that's self-installable are various SBTs - a FRAP from the 70s, Baggs IBeam, PUTW 54, and such. I've mixed in mics from time to time too, with a Highlander IP-2 mic being easy to install.



Want to try Dazzo pups but only with a tape install. Tried that with a K&K for a friend, where we used tape to get the position right on his OM, and it sounds fine without being superglued. Don't want permanent mods other than engagement of the endpin hole.



I think that good pickup sound is inexorably bound up with a good preamp. A good pre can make a so-so pickup sound ok, while a bad pre can just ruin everything. That's why I use a couple of different pres, since it allows for optimization by device.

I'm interested in the PUTW #54. How would you compare it to them K&K.

[M Hayden]

The PUTW 54 has lower output than the K&K and needs a good preamp close to the source. I think it's terrifically natural-sounding and sounds good through the following preamps (in order of preference below), all assuming a good cable. Sometimes I'll use the PUTW Stereo Power Plug, which adds a lot of boost right at the guitar output jack, to drive longer cables.
- Rane AP-13
- Raven PMB-1
- Baggs PADI
- Fishman Platinum Plus

The K&K is hotter and can be used without a pre, but IMHO it sounds better with one, with the Raven being my go-to. It is a good deal brighter than the PUTW, too bright for me without some EQing.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by M Hayden

The PUTW 54 has lower output than the K&K and needs a good preamp close to the source. I think it's terrifically natural-sounding and sounds good through the following preamps (in order of preference below), all assuming a good cable. Sometimes I'll use the PUTW Stereo Power Plug, which adds a lot of boost right at the guitar output jack, to drive longer cables.

- Rane AP-13

- Raven PMB-1

- Baggs PADI

- Fishman Platinum Plus



The K&K is hotter and can be used without a pre, but IMHO it sounds better with one, with the Raven being my go-to. It is a good deal brighter than the PUTW, too bright for me without some EQing.

Thank you for the valuable information. I'm considering their #54 package that includes the internal MiSi (battery free) preamp.