The Acoustic Guitar Forum

Go Back   The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Reply
 
Thread Tools
  #1  
Old 11-08-2012, 03:54 PM
Steve Berger Steve Berger is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Southern California
Posts: 3,212
Default Neil Young On Songwriting - "Thinking is the worst thing for writing a song".

Not sure the best sub-forum for this, so mods please move if needed.

I ran across this print interview with Neil Young in (of all places) the Costco Connection.

Neil is asked how he approaches songwriting and I found his comments to be not only most interesting, but the comments that resonated the most with me of any I have ever read on this subject. Although I suspect Neil is speaking of how we writes his songs that typically have lyrics, I believe they certainly apply as much to composing instrumental guitar songs

Anyway, here it is - Enjoy:

The Costco Connection: How do you approach songwriting?

Neil Young: "When I write a song, it starts with a feeling. I can hear something in my head or feel it in my heart. It may be I just picked up the guitar and mindlessly started playing. That's the way a lot of songs begin. When you do that, you are not thinking. Thinking is the worst thing for writing a song. So you just start playing and something new comes out. Where does it come from? Who cares? Just keep it and go with it.

That's what I do. I never judge it. I believe it. It came as a gift when I picked up my musical instrument and it came through me playing with the instrument. The chords and melody just appeared. Now is not the time for interrogation or analysis. Now is the time to get to know the song, not change it before you even know it. It is like a wild animal, a living thing. Be careful not to scare it away. That's my method, or one of my methods at least."
__________________
Steve
SoundCloud / SoundClick / Facebook Music Page

'More guitars than I need but not as many as I want.'
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 11-08-2012, 04:02 PM
Feste's Avatar
Feste Feste is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Third Coast, USA
Posts: 1,568
Default

Nice!
Thanks for sharing Steve.
__________________
"Better a witty fool than a foolish wit."
New Album
Pandora
Spotify

FOR SALE:
MIKTEK CV4 Tube mic
Various Shock Mounts
2019 Alvarez ABT60 SHB-E Baritone guitar
Shoot me a PM if interested
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 11-08-2012, 05:54 PM
Chris_M Chris_M is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada
Posts: 106
Default

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zYwK6VhGTOw

Amazing interview
Watch 16:25 for Neil on lyrics/songwriting and how it really doesn't matter.

NO THINKING! DON'T THINK, WORST THING YOU CAN DO!
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-08-2012, 07:32 PM
Bikewer Bikewer is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Posts: 2,342
Default

There are essentially two schools of thought regarding songwriting. I've written a lot of songs, and maybe a couple of them were decent...
All mine came in a rush, "out of the air", much as Young describes. Rarely spend more than a few minutes writing down the lyric. Indeed, if it takes longer than that, chances are it won't "come".

The other school is the "songsmith" method. Merle Travis, in an old Guitar Player interview, said he really admired the "Tin Pan Alley" type of songwriters who could knock out a tune on demand on whatever subject was presented.

Some guys recommend coming up with a good "hook" and building the song around that.
Some say "work backwards". Come up with a good strong ending and work the thing back from there...
Whatever works, I suppose; all have been successful.

I read an interview with Guy Clark, who is a plodder. He takes months or even years to perfect a song... Keeps little scraps of lines or ideas in a big folder and goes through them constantly to see if anything clicks..
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 11-08-2012, 08:41 PM
jseth jseth is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Oregon... "Heart of the Valley"...
Posts: 10,831
Default

Songwriting is such a personal endeavor... I've been writing songs since I was around 13 years old, so... 48 years now (jeez, that seems like such a LONG TIME!)...

Sometimes songs just "show up"; I've had a number of them that have appeared, full blown, when I first woke up in the morning... just wrote them down as fast as I could write! Other songs just want to take their time, or be a bit coy, like they'll show me a little bit, but then just freeze or run away and hide...

I have pieces that have been "in progress" for a good number of years, whether lyric ideas, melody or a set of changes/groove that speaks to me... I figure that they'll eventually be ready to be written, so long as I remember them... but I don't believe in "forcing" a song, either. Certainly, I can do that. I can just write a song and finish it, work out a rhyme that fits, whether it's what I want the song to be, or what the SONG wants to be... something gets lost when I do it that way...

I've read too many interviews and books about songwriting to ascribe to any theory that says there's only one way to do it... or two ways or whatever...

When it comes down to it, you just write them, anyway that you can, any way that works for you, that produces a result that you're pleased with...

One thing I would suggest to any writer: DON'T THROW ANY SONG AWAY!!! I used to do that, all the time... I'd finish a piece (or get close) and think that it wasn't up to my own standards... so I'd toss it, or just walk away from it. Be gentle with yourself instead of being your own strongest critic...

By the way, I have found that it is FAR EASIER to write a song FOR someone else, than for me... even the suggestion of 'write a song about_____" is a whole lot simpler than staring a blank piece of paper and dong the "okay, what do I want to write about? What do I want to say?"...

As much as I love a whole lot of Neil Young's music, I wouldn't suggest following ANYONE'S advice to the extent of eschewing your own "way"...

Although the "don't think about it" comment is a darn good one!

play on...................................>

John Seth Sherman
__________________
"He's one of those who knows that life is just a leap of faith.
Spread your arms and hold your breath,
always trust your cape..."

"The Cape" (Guy Clark/Jim Janowsky/Susanna Clark)
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 11-08-2012, 09:45 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Coastal Washington State
Posts: 44,926
Default

"Thinking is the worst thing for writing a song"

I can understand where Neil Young is coming from on this, knowing his music. Sometimes I have written songs this way, but in the last 25 years, my approach has been much more like the songsmith that Bikewer describes as "coming up with a good "hook" and building the song around that." For me, coming up with interesting music has never been hard. For me, coming up with an interesting subject, something that is actually worth the time and that has meaning for someone else, and then is expressed well in an appealing way and form -- that, to me, is hard. It's real work, in fact. Music, at least for me and the way my mind works, is the easy part.

I agree with jseth that "...I wouldn't suggest following ANYONE'S advice to the extent of eschewing your own "way"... " Everybody seems to do it differently, even people who actually make money at it.

- Glenn
__________________
My You Tube Channel
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 11-10-2012, 01:04 AM
billgennaro billgennaro is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: DeLand, FL
Posts: 4,841
Default

i agree with Glenn - coming up with a subject, especially one that isn't about a woman, is the hard part. its always a struggle for me.

bill
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 11-10-2012, 04:22 AM
TNTaylor414 TNTaylor414 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Knoxville, TN
Posts: 519
Default

Good interview with Darrell Scott on songwriting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9_9gpJJjmI
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 11-10-2012, 07:07 AM
Bronzeback Bronzeback is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 401
Default

Neil is the Master... Many of my songs I'll build a basic idea, roll a recorder and improvise lyrics, then go back and memorize later. Yea thinking is an imagination killer.
__________________
2018 Guild D40T

Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 11-10-2012, 08:19 AM
llew llew is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Coastal South Carolina
Posts: 13,754
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by jseth View Post
Songwriting is such a personal endeavor... I've been writing songs since I was around 13 years old, so... 48 years now (jeez, that seems like such a LONG TIME!)...

Sometimes songs just "show up"; I've had a number of them that have appeared, full blown, when I first woke up in the morning... just wrote them down as fast as I could write! Other songs just want to take their time, or be a bit coy, like they'll show me a little bit, but then just freeze or run away and hide...

I have pieces that have been "in progress" for a good number of years, whether lyric ideas, melody or a set of changes/groove that speaks to me... I figure that they'll eventually be ready to be written, so long as I remember them... but I don't believe in "forcing" a song, either. Certainly, I can do that. I can just write a song and finish it, work out a rhyme that fits, whether it's what I want the song to be, or what the SONG wants to be... something gets lost when I do it that way...

I've read too many interviews and books about songwriting to ascribe to any theory that says there's only one way to do it... or two ways or whatever...

When it comes down to it, you just write them, anyway that you can, any way that works for you, that produces a result that you're pleased with...

One thing I would suggest to any writer: DON'T THROW ANY SONG AWAY!!! I used to do that, all the time... I'd finish a piece (or get close) and think that it wasn't up to my own standards... so I'd toss it, or just walk away from it. Be gentle with yourself instead of being your own strongest critic...

By the way, I have found that it is FAR EASIER to write a song FOR someone else, than for me... even the suggestion of 'write a song about_____" is a whole lot simpler than staring a blank piece of paper and dong the "okay, what do I want to write about? What do I want to say?"...

As much as I love a whole lot of Neil Young's music, I wouldn't suggest following ANYONE'S advice to the extent of eschewing your own "way"...

Although the "don't think about it" comment is a darn good one!

play on...................................>

John Seth Sherman

I have melodies/music but no lyrics? I have bits and pieces of songs floating around in my head. Some started with an ending. Some started with a hook. Some of it is just playing a progression that I begin to recognize as a possibility for a song. Some has been in the works for years? It makes no sense whatsoever to me? I'm not what I would call a "real" songwriter. I have friends who are very good at it. Something has to move me, inspire me to write and when that happens it usually comes quickly and if I'm not in a place where I can at least make some notes I'll lose it. And later when I try to reconstruct from memory it never comes together as it did in that moment of epiphany? I'm beginning to think it's a gift that you're overly blessed with or that maybe you have it in you and you just have to work at it...I really don't know. Just wish I was better at it.
__________________
Jim

Dogs Welcome......People Tolerated!
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 11-10-2012, 09:04 AM
mashup mashup is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Location: London
Posts: 717
Default

Brilliant! Thanks for this.
__________________
Martin 000-28EC
Cordoba EB-CE
Cordoba Mini R
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 11-10-2012, 10:55 AM
cokezero cokezero is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: San Jose, CA
Posts: 229
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by llew View Post
I have melodies/music but no lyrics? I have bits and pieces of songs floating around in my head. Some started with an ending. Some started with a hook. Some of it is just playing a progression that I begin to recognize as a possibility for a song. Some has been in the works for years? It makes no sense whatsoever to me? I'm not what I would call a "real" songwriter. I have friends who are very good at it. Something has to move me, inspire me to write and when that happens it usually comes quickly and if I'm not in a place where I can at least make some notes I'll lose it. And later when I try to reconstruct from memory it never comes together as it did in that moment of epiphany? I'm beginning to think it's a gift that you're overly blessed with or that maybe you have it in you and you just have to work at it...I really don't know. Just wish I was better at it.
I'm the opposite. I have SO MANY lyrics that I have written but not many melodies/music. Many say I should first get melodies down, but I can't seem to get it. So many thoughts that I write down, just can't seem to get good hooks down.
__________________
J
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 11-10-2012, 11:52 AM
korby korby is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: So Cal
Posts: 1,085
Default

Kind of the Jonathan Livingston Seagull approach . I use that also , I am so I can .
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 11-10-2012, 12:17 PM
Glennwillow Glennwillow is offline
Charter Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Coastal Washington State
Posts: 44,926
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by TNTaylor414 View Post
Good interview with Darrell Scott on songwriting.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c9_9gpJJjmI
Thanks for that! That was REALLY interesting and well produced!

- Glenn
__________________
My You Tube Channel
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 11-10-2012, 01:32 PM
mymartind35 mymartind35 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 861
Default

The subject isn't the hard part. I do like Guy Clark does. I put ideas in a pad and when I feel like writing, I reference those. I have a lot of lyrical hooks. I've never thought of starting at the end and working back. I have a 12 channel studio at home that I put my musical hooks in. Sometimes I don't make it fast enough to get them recorded. Great food for thought, though. We wrote over 100 songs in the 80's. I wrote the music and my best friend wrote the lyrics. He broke up with "the girl" and all the songs turned into tearjerkers. I've just started going through all that also.
__________________
Dum Spiro Spero (While I breathe, I hope.)

1979 Martin D-35, 1978 Yamaha G230 classical, Yamaha A3R VS, Yamaha AC3R VS, Yamaha LS16 ARE sunburst, Yamaha NCX1200R Classical, Wechter TO-8418, Wechter DN 8128, Takamine EG334C.][/COLOR]
Reply With Quote
Reply

  The Acoustic Guitar Forum > General Acoustic Guitar and Amplification Discussion > General Acoustic Guitar Discussion

Thread Tools





All times are GMT -6. The time now is 10:42 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, The Acoustic Guitar Forum
vB Ad Management by =RedTyger=