Nut Slot Files: Is there a less expensive way?

[gpj1136]

I'm beginning to think Bothhands has an agenda of keeping these threads rolling along. Lots of questions that bring in differing opinions and methods, and an occasional off base comment that keeps it rolling.

Or He is a math teacher.

[BothHands]

JLT ==

Great post and a great linked article. Thanks. I think both of them corroborate and substantiate my natural instinct for caution as a "neophyte nut carver".

A question for you:

If the instrument fretboard is radiused (as mine are) and the feeler gauge stack used as a stop for your filing is flat, how are you able to accommodate the outer strings - the ones toward the edges of the fretboard?

I'm probably missing something here (duh) but I think you would need to rock or tilt the feeler gauge stack to accommodate each string, in turn?

See image below

[clinchriver]

Obviously its impossible to fit a new nut

I get really close with the half pencil used to scribe a line off the top of the frets and then, string er up, fretting at the third fret I eyeball till its as close to no clearance between the top of the first fret and the bottom of the string (all six) as I can see and 99% of the time thats it.

[BothHands]

Originally Posted by gpj1136

I'm beginning to think Bothhands has an agenda of keeping these threads rolling along. Lots of questions that bring in differing opinions and methods, and an occasional off base comment that keeps it rolling.

Or He is a math teacher.

Muwahahahahaha! Actually, I'm an ART Teacher by training.
And I think maybe YOU might be a detective. Good call!

The fact is, I'm seriously interested in making my guitars as 'right' as I can get them, and I just enjoy these conversations with knowledgeable, thinking people - and most of all, I very much appreciate the perspective gleaned from the experiences you all share here. A little mutual respect goes a long way, and seems to make for continuing discussions. WIN/WIN sez I.

[gpj1136]

I actually enjoy your posts, and they do bring in many methods, and/or opinions on how things should be accomplished.

Yet I must agree with Frank again that in order to do ( one must do ).

The same as saddles you can buy several nut blanks for very inexpensive and file and shape away. While you do you can be asking these same questions with a little elbow knowledge. In that way you can learn quickly that you are far better at it than you may think.

Even Harbor Freight carries an adequate set of small files. With the wound strings a piece of string makes a perfectly sized file for rounding and final touches to an imperfectly made slot.

[bnjp]

Originally Posted by clinchriver

Obviously its impossible to fit a new nut

I get really close with the half pencil used to scribe a line off the top of the frets and then, string er up, fretting at the third fret I eyeball till its as close to no clearance between the top of the first fret and the bottom of the string (all six) as I can see and 99% of the time thats it.

Greg...I use the half-pencil idea too. Except mine is a refill for a mechanical carpenter's pencil.

[nate clark]

The stew Mac nut slotting files work well. All things considered, they are very affordable.

[BothHands]

Now THAT'S what I'm talkin' about!

An idea/process that would not have occurred to me (certainly not before 4 or 5 failed nuts...) I'll be scrounging around now to see what I can cobble together for a similar long drawing instrument with "one flat side". Thanks very much for those "1000 words", bnjp. And thanks, clinchriver, for raising the subject.

And YES, gpj1136, I know you're right, and so are Frank et al. Actually DOING a thing clarifies the process and also evokes better/smarter questions. But do you guys see how much my chances of success just increased based on this "flat pencil" idea? MAN!

PUBLIC PROCLAMATION:
Without further delay, I will go HERE and buy a set of 10 or 12 bone nut blanks.
This set looks like a good choice to me at 7mm thickness (tell me if I'm wrong).

Per all the kind and helpful advice received here, I will fire up my cheap Chinese needle file set (along with my soon-to-arrive X-acto precision saw) and
I will make some bone dust (at least). Then I'll use wound strings as suggested to round the bottom of each slot. If I get the hang of it, and especially if my intended "even spacing with the Lo-E pushed toward the edge" feels as 'right' as I think it will, maybe I'll upgrade to some real files...


SIDENOTE: In your photo, bnjp, it appears that the neck binding actually forms/encompasses the fret ends... Am I seeing that right?

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by BothHands

SIDENOTE: In your photo, bnjp, it appears that the neck binding actually forms/encompasses the fret ends... Am I seeing that right?

This is a practice that Gibson has used for a long time. It isn't a practice I understand, but from a time/money saving perspective.

Effectively, it reduces the playing width of the fingerboard by the thickness of the bindings. Put another way, it makes the neck unnecessarily wider than the playable width of the fingerboard.

[murrmac123]

Originally Posted by BothHands

JLT ==

Great post and a great linked article. Thanks. I think both of them corroborate and substantiate my natural instinct for caution as a "neophyte nut carver".

A question for you:

If the instrument fretboard is radiused (as mine are) and the feeler gauge stack used as a stop for your filing is flat, how are you able to accommodate the outer strings - the ones toward the edges of the fretboard?

I'm probably missing something here (duh) but I think you would need to rock or tilt the feeler gauge stack to accommodate each string, in turn?

See image below

Yes, you do, but just think about it for a moment ... the worst case scenario is that you leave the nut slot too high ... you can never cut it too low using the stacked feeler gauges (assuming the stack is the right height of course). It is easy enough to eyeball it to get it spot on.

Personally, I use the feeler gauges to get to within about .008" of the desired height, and do the rest by feel , one file stroke at a time.

[bnjp]

Originally Posted by BothHands

SIDENOTE: In your photo, bnjp, it appears that the neck binding actually forms/encompasses the fret ends... Am I seeing that right?

That is correct. This is a Gibson Les Paul and most Gibsons are made that way. Until this year that is...when I understand they've stopped doing that. Google "binding nibs".

[Ned Milburn]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

This is a practice that Gibson has used for a long time. It isn't a practice I understand, but from a time/money saving perspective.

Effectively, it reduces the playing width of the fingerboard by the thickness of the bindings. Put another way, it makes the neck unnecessarily wider than the playable width of the fingerboard.

Another negative of binding fret ends this way is that as the fingerboard shrinks, the binding could get pushed away from the fingerboard edge. Makes refretting a nuisance, too.

[bnjp]

Originally Posted by Ned Milburn

Another negative of binding fret ends this way is that as the fingerboard shrinks, the binding could get pushed away from the fingerboard edge. Makes refretting a nuisance, too.

Yep. But the Gibson devotees love them. They apparently stopped using nibs on the 2014 models and it's causing quite a stir.

[JLT]

Originally Posted by BothHands

A question for you:

If the instrument fretboard is radiused (as mine are) and the feeler gauge stack used as a stop for your filing is flat, how are you able to accommodate the outer strings - the ones toward the edges of the fretboard?

Well, I don't radius my fretboards that much, since I do mainly classical guitars and mandolin family instruments. On the radiused fretboards I've done for my OO and OMs, the feeler gauges have enough flex to match the radius, assuming that you're using tight rubber bands. (I'm tempted to say that you need to use only the rubber bands that come from ORGANIC broccoli and not the regular stuff, but even I can't make that kind of a statement and keep a straight face.) When I'm stacking the feeler gauges, I always use combinations of the thinner ones to avoid that stiffness problem. If you're using heavily radiused fretboards, I guess you'd have to rock the feeler gauges to ensure that they're up against that part of the fretboard, like you've said.

murrmac has already pointed out that he only uses the gauges to get close. I agree with him there. When you're getting down to that last bit, you're really just a stroke or two away from your final dimension.

Another trick: Frank Ford has described how you gauge string height by pushing down on the area just south of the second fret and listening for a "click" or "tink" as you push the string. The ideal should be that you should hear the difference without actually seeing the clearance, I think. But my old weak eyes can't be depended on for that, so I use a layer of painter's masking tape over the fret, and go down to where I'm really not sure whether I'm getting the "click" or not. Then I remove the tape, I have the clearance, and Bob's your uncle.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by BothHands

JLT ==

Great post and a great linked article. Thanks. I think both of them corroborate and substantiate my natural instinct for caution as a "neophyte nut carver".

A question for you:

If the instrument fretboard is radiused (as mine are) and the feeler gauge stack used as a stop for your filing is flat, how are you able to accommodate the outer strings - the ones toward the edges of the fretboard?

I'm probably missing something here (duh) but I think you would need to rock or tilt the feeler gauge stack to accommodate each string, in turn?

See image below

I missed this until Murray responded.

The feeler gauges are flexible. They will conform to the curvature of the fingerboard. In the last year or so I've experimented with using pin gages. They are not flexible and do not conform to the fingerboard.

I generally finalize nut slot heights with the instrument at pitch. The strings will generally hold the feeler gauges against the fretboard.

It is easy to feel when the file first contacts the feeler gauges. In more than a decade or two of doing this, I'm still on the first set of fret files , same x-acto saw blade and second set of feeler gauges. The only reason I switched gauges is due to rust on the gauges, not because they were worn. An adequate set of gauges is about $15.

I measure carefully and then file to the correct stack of gauges. That is the final height. I don't find it necessary, or desirable, to approximate the depth and then file freehand to creep up on the final height. Obviously both methods work, it's just my preference.