Learning to play lead

[mr. beaumont]

"Play what you hear." I hear that all the time...

Sometimes, we need to train ourselves to hear better, to hear new things. I know a lot of cats who can only "hear" a minor pentatonic scale.

Improvising at a really high level is hard. This is why there aren't ten great improvisers on every block. Yeah, you play what you hear--that's an end goal, not a means. You need to train yourself to be able to find the notes you hear...you need to practice "hearing" what notes fit a chord progression...what if the chords aren't diatonic? Can you "hear" that on the fly? Very few can.

Plying what you hear isn't as easy as it sounds...at least, if you're hearing anything interesting

[oldgeezer]

I haven't read this whole thread, but there's a lot of good advice in what I have read. My.02?
FWIW, you can learn and practice scales, go over theory, etc, etc, until you're blue in the face. At some point you just have to play.
My advice is to learn a scale or two until you pretty much know it backwards and forward, and then close yourself up in a room where you don't have to worry about being embarrassed if anyone hears you. Then turn on the radio, tune in to the station of your choice, and just noodle over every song that comes on. Find the key and play. Don't worry about trying to learn the leads in the songs, or waiting for the lead break, just play leads over top of the song. You need to get a feel for what notes work where, and what notes don't. Much of playing lead is knowing what notes NOT to play.
This will not only help you play leads, but it will help you learn to improvise and come up with your own sound and style.

[DanPanther]

Mike;
You wrote, "Don't worry about trying to learn the leads in the songs, or waiting for the lead break, just play leads over top of the song.'

Now exactly where do I get these leads I'm going to play over the song. I'm going to have to LEARN them, If you said Play chords over a song, that would be about 10,000 easier. To improvise Licks, again, you either have to copy others, or spend YEARS developing your own, there is no Formula for learning lead. Just listen, and play what you hear, and expect to find it a very slow, and at times Very discouraging. Anyone can learn to copy someones elses licks, creating your own takes a LOT of time. There is no way to teach originality.
You just can't learn originality, or Improvisation from a book or DVD. TIME is the key, and lots of practice, and the practice never stops because the possible lick combinations is practically endless. There are Hundreds and perhaps thousands of Chords, but licks are in the Trillions of combinations.
I think that is why playing Rhythm is slightly easier.
Personally, and again that's just me, I spent a couple years trying to LEARN lead, I finally pretty mush gave it up, in favor of Rhythm, after a couple years I can play just about anything I can find written down, and a lot of what I hear. the reason I feel, New chords are rare, new licks are in the hundreds or thousands a day.
Dan

[mr. beaumont]

I don't understand the lead/rhythm dichotomy...you either play the guitar or you don't.

[Bern]

Originally Posted by AJ Ray

Does anyone know of a good way to learn to play lead. I have never been a fan of practising scales etc and not because i aint any goopd as i can play country blues and ragtime tunes but i learned the tunes. I want to learn about the fretboard and be able to improvise and really play the guitar if you see what i mean.
Would anyone recomend anything. What should i be doing?

I want guitar freedom ha ha

What type of music do you play and wish to play leads over ?

[oldgeezer]

Danpanther, you learn them by playing the notes in the scale of the key the song is in, bending and sliding, until you find notes that work. This is also how to develop originality; by finding your own way.
It also sounds like crap until you start to find your way. That's why I said to close yourself up in a room where you don't have to worry about being embarassed by others hearing you.
This is how I learned. It was the only way I could do it. Studying scales, theory, even other players to a certain extent, got me nowhere. It was only when I shut myself off from everything but my guitar and the music, and started bending and sliding, listening to and feeling the music as I went along, that I truely learned to play lead.
And about learning other people's leads, that will help you learn various techniques. I wasn't saying never to do that. What I was saying is to use the song structure of the songs on the radio as a soundtrack or practice track to bend and slide over. The whole song. Learn to feel the music and play along with it. In other words, just jam.
Yeah, you'll sound like crap at first. But yoy'll get the hang of it if you keep at it, and when you finally do get where you feel comfortable jamming with others, you'll have those experiences, and the patterns you've come up with, under your fingers to work with.
You are correct that TIME is the key. What I proposed gives you lots of time, with a backup band that never gets tired of hearing you screw up. Nobody said it would happen overnight. But improvisation is about improvising. That's exactly what I'm proposing. In a way that lets you learn without nerves, fear, or embarrassment. And it's a heck of a lot of FUN, too.

[AJ Ray]

Hi guys. I appreciate all of this input so much. I play in a band just stating out and i play rythym acoustic but i have just ordered a usa tele. I have played a friends strat a couple of times putting quite simple melody lines over songs i have written and put the chords to. I hear different melody ideas in my head and record them into my phone just humming, find the chords that fit and we work on it during our practice. I thoroughly enjoyed my short electric inputs and want to learn more. Can i learn one pattern and play it up and down the neck? so that its in a different key?

We are influenced by the eagles, springsteen, sheryl crow, james walsh etc

[DanPanther]

Oldgeezer;
I completely agree, if you read what I wrote, I said you have to do it on your own, NO ONE can teach originality, or improvisation. Like mentioned, they can tell you to learn scales, then play them until they sound right to you, that isn't a very sound tutorial.

You can give a man tools but that doesn't make him a mechanic. You can show him how to do the work, but the feel of being a mechanic can not be taught.That's like saying flying a plane is easy, just start the engine, and take off. I would guess that the ratio between people starting out to learn Lead, vs Rhythm, and giving up is probably 100 to 1. OR HIGHER.

Dan

[Bob Womack]

I wrote up an article about this and posted it on my site, HERE. After doing this for forty years I've come down to a theory that improv is based upon collecting licks and connectors that can be fired off like macros and allow your fingers to work alone on the details and come up with something pleasing to listen to, leaving your brain to think about the future in a strategic way.

Hopefully you can find something in my article that is useful!

Bob

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I don't understand the lead/rhythm dichotomy...you either play the guitar or you don't.

Hi Jeff...

Yes, that is so. When I'm asked to play the role of rhythm player in an ensemble/band, I limit myself to not interjecting solo-bits which would conflict or compete with whomever was asked to play lead.

Solo play or duo work - whole other ballgame.

[mr. beaumont]

Yeah...i mean, even the cat that plays the solos in a rock band spends most of his time playing "rhythm."


I guess there is BB King...

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by DanPanther

Mike;
You wrote, "Don't worry about trying to learn the leads in the songs, or waiting for the lead break, just play leads over top of the song.'

Now exactly where do I get these leads I'm going to play over the song. I'm going to have to LEARN them,

Not exactly. You have to learn strategies, methods; not the leads (improvised solos) themselves, but ways of constructing them. Those aren't really too hard, especially if you know your chords well enough.

Originally Posted by DanPanther

To improvise Licks, again, you either have to copy others, or spend YEARS developing your own, there is no Formula for learning lead. Just listen, and play what you hear, and expect to find it a very slow, and at times Very discouraging. Anyone can learn to copy someones elses licks, creating your own takes a LOT of time. There is no way to teach originality.
You just can't learn originality, or Improvisation from a book or DVD. TIME is the key, and lots of practice, and the practice never stops because the possible lick combinations is practically endless. There are Hundreds and perhaps thousands of Chords, but licks are in the Trillions of combinations.
I think that is why playing Rhythm is slightly easier.

Well yes. No disagreement with any of that, although IMO you're exaggerating about the difficulty of developing originality, or the time it takes.
In a sense there is no such thing as "originality", in that everything you can play that sounds good is going to come from something you've heard before. The "originality" comes in the often random way you might combine the licks you've learned (because no one else will have learned the exact same set of licks you have) and from your own style of playing.

IOW, thinking you have to be "original" can hold you back; some people imagine there's a kind of magic inspiration that strikes from nowhere. But all it is is a matter of vocabulary.
Music is a language, and to say what you want to say in that language, you need vocabulary (learned licks and phrases). But you don't have to say anything terribly deep or complicated. You don't have to spew out 100s of notes; you can start with something really simple.

Of course, not everyone has something they want to say. Plenty of people are quite happy to play a tune just the way someone else does, because it already says all they feel needs to be said about it.
But improvisation can begin with just some brief comment, 3 or 4 notes added in the middle somewhere; some different way of playing one of the chords; some little linking phrase between chords.

In a sense, when covering a song, you can't help but add something of your own. You inevitably play it with your own "voice", even if you think you're making a faithful copy. Even if you're only playing rhythm, the way you play the chords is not identical to how anyone else would play them. You can call that "originality", or "improvisation" (or even "mistakes" ) - it's really a mix of both.

IOW, "originality" is not something one deliberately constructs. You automatically have your own voice, you just may not recognise it as such (but others will). You steal as many licks and phrases as you can - making sure you pick only the ones you like! - and the mix that results is your own "original style". Sometimes, you just need to believe you can do it.

[donh]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I don't understand the lead/rhythm dichotomy...you either play the guitar or you don't.

LOL! (heh)

[jwing]

My epiphony (presented to me by my instructor): When beginning to learn lead playing, be aware of scales but don't use them. Use short licks, using no more than two different notes per string and no more than two strings, which should be adjacent. Repeat alot. The same lick will sound different when the chord changes. Improvise as much as you can with a limited number of notes by sliding, hammering, pulling, muting, rhythmic changes. Above all play in the groove. You should get to the point that you can seemlessly mix the short licks in with rhythm playing.

[BluesBelly]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I don't understand the lead/rhythm dichotomy...you either play the guitar or you don't.

I agree but I think the OP is refering to the fact that lots of players can strum along at the campfire or in a worship service but few can break out and play a single note harmonic fill or 12 bar lead line. Once a player learns to play the chords of a song the next natural step is to play a one bar fill between chord switches, a method that adds interest when perfoming solo or duet. The "lead guitar" moniker comes when a player can rip an extended solo in conjunction with other musicians who provide backing. This takes lots of practice a good ear, and understanding of scales and how they relate to chords especially when improvising. I firmly believe that some musicians come by this knowledge more naturally than others or we can say some come by it easier. But no one gets a free pass. The dues that has to be paid is practice, practice, practice. The only thing that stands between the player at the bottom of the musical ladder and the very top of the ladder is the ladder itself.

Blues