Cdim

[merlin666]

I have a score that has some Cdim just for a half beat or so. I lookerd it up on my smartchord app and none of the variations look straightforward. So I'm not sure what to do - is there a standard way to play a Cdim, should I just skip this chord, or is there an alternative that sounds similar?

[mr. beaumont]

I'd be interested to know what the context is, diminished chords are often a stand in for a 7th chord...

C diminished isn't particularly hard to grab. If you want a root position C dim, try x3424x

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

I'd be interested to know what the context is, diminished chords are often a stand in for a 7th chord...

C diminished isn't particularly hard to grab. If you want a root position C dim, try x3424x

Or if you want easier movement, I use 5 x 4 5 4 x .

To move down, subtract three frets. To move up move in multiples of three frets.

Another fingering would be x 3 x 2 4 2

All diminished fingerings are moveable in increments of three frets since dim chords are just stacked minor thirds.

[mr. beaumont]

Yep.

Generally, you'll see a diminished chord called for in situations where that root movement is wanted...

Bmaj, Cdim, C#m7, F#7...

[merlin666]

It's not a jazzy tune at all, just waltz that fiddlers and mandos play:

http://calfolk.ca/tunes1/blue-skirt-waltz.pdf

[rick-slo]

Depends on the voicing you want:
x3424x is Cdim7
Probably and handy chord shape for Cdim is: x3454x (with or without forming a barre)
What chord shape, or even if you need the full triad played, depends on the before
and after context.

[AX17609]

In the context of the song, doesn't a C7 do just as well with a lot less work?

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Depends on the voicing you want:
x3424x is Cdim7
Probably and handy chord shape for Cdim is: x3454x (with or without forming a barre)
What chord shape, or even if you need the full triad played, depends on the before
and after context.

Yup. Context is everything.

I prefer the more open voicing of the bass/triad fingerings myself.

[Choysauce]

I would suggest making sure when you play the C in that 3rd measure you use

C x35553

then goto this version of Cdim

Cdim x3454x

That way it's a lot more natural to do the transition. Using the open C to get to Cdim will be a really difficult change unless you find something close to the open voiced version.


Similarly from the F > Cdim > C

It may be a bit of a jump from F to Cdim, but if you can do this, it'll show you know the Cdim pretty well

And the transition from Cdim to C x35553 would be much smoother than jumping to the open C chord.

Hope that helps!

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by AX17609

In the context of the song, doesn't a C7 do just as well with a lot less work?

YES!

I've played this song for over 50 years with people all over and have never heard anything other than C7. Any half-step modulation was always a single passing note, not a chord.

In addition, that chart is all wrong. VERY poorly done.

https://youtu.be/wdzRodvyTGc

Above is the popular version USA. Following is the original played in true Czech style.

https://youtu.be/EOPjxkxLloU

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by merlin666

It's not a jazzy tune at all, just waltz that fiddlers and mandos play:

http://calfolk.ca/tunes1/blue-skirt-waltz.pdf

The correct chord there is C#dim7, not Cdim. You can hear it in the first track Wyllys posted (which is in C major, so the chord in that key is F#dim7).
It's an optional passing chord - only on the last beat of the bar - that just adds some chromatic harmony to the chromatic melody note. In theoretical terms (which you don't need to know ) it's a "common-tone diminished", because it shares a note with the root of the following chord.
If you want to throw it in there, try this:

--x-------------------
--5----5---3-------------
--5----3---4-------------
--5----5---5-------------
--3----4---5-------------
-(3)---(3)-(3)------------

Notice it gives you a chromatic lead up on the 5th string as well as the melody on the 3rd string. That's really the whole point of it.

A higher version could be this:

-8---6-7--------------------
-5---5---------------------
-5---6-7--------------------
-5---5-5--------------------
-------------------------
-------------------------

But as I say, it's totally optional. Sounds to me like there are plenty of other chromatic passing chords in that recording which that chart doesn't mention at all. (And some of the other chords it gives are wrong. I agree with Wyllys, it's a terrible chart. That is, most of the chords are correct, but that's no good if you don't know which ones! And if you can tell which are wrong, then you can work out the right ones for yourself.)

[Wyllys]

Great post, Jon.

[merlin666]

Thanks for all the comments. I didn't know the tune and had some problems with this score in general, so if there are some errors that's not surprising. But it's good to learn something new and I will have to explore the concept "chromatic passing chords" as I think this will enhance my playing.

[Wyllys]

Originally Posted by merlin666

Thanks for all the comments. I didn't know the tune and had some problems with this score in general, so if there are some errors that's not surprising. But it's good to learn something new and I will have to explore the concept "chromatic passing chords" as I think this will enhance my playing.

Check out the vocal duet videos you'll find on the side of the second linked YouTube video for the harmonic flow. It's a classic tune and well worth any time spent. And you may even find where a Cdim actually fits, albeit momentarily. It's a very "diatonic" change.

W