Focusrite vs Zoom sound

[Wrighty]

Hi all

I have a Scarlett 2i2 and a Zoom H5 as my options for plugging my twin AT 2020 mics into.

If I use the 2i2 then I record straight into Auria on IPad Pro, and if I use the Zoom I record onto the SD and then import it to Auria.

What I’ve noticed when comparing these two, is that they sound very different with identical mic position (recording one after the other)

The 2i2 seems to be warmer but lacks clarity, whereas the Zoom is slightly cleaner and brighter (To my ears)

The only difference to speak of in the output is that the Zoom records a single stereo file, whereas the Focusrite records 2 files on 2 channels (one for each mic) - these are then panned hard left and right in the file.

I would like to know why this might be and if you agree with my findings - also which you prefer.





Thanks for listening..

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

What I’ve noticed when comparing these two, is that they sound very different with identical mic position (recording one after the other)

Your using the same microphones but you're using two different mic pres and that's the difference.

Originally Posted by Wrighty

The 2i2 seems to be warmer but lacks clarity, whereas the Zoom is slightly cleaner and brighter (To my ears)

I think the 212 track is by far the better of the two. To my ears, the Zoom is boomy on the bottom and a bit brittle on the top whereas the 2i2 sounds much more balanced.

[Stevien]

To my ear, the Zoom sounded better. Clearer & more articulate. You can always get rid of the extra "boominess" by setting the mics a little further back from the guitar. Less percussion hitting the mics.
Steve

[DukeX]

Two different mic pres. Two different AD converters.

I'm with Jim1960 on this. The Zoom sounds both boomy and strident to me. Reminds me of my old Behringer mixer from years ago.

However, if the mic placement and playing aren't precisely the same, it's hard to determine which setup is actually better.

[Caddy]

I much prefer the sound of the Focusrite. Just warmer sounding.

[RodB]

I downloaded your 2 files to take a look at them and balance up the volumes etc. There was quite a difference in the dynamics of your playing between the two. To me that could help explain the differences - that in my opinion were less evident once I had done this. Your playing seemed more restrained in the focusrite example, especially at the beginning.

Presumably the recording formats were the same bit-rate etc.?

I too use a zoom H5 and feel it can be a bit bright with the XY module, but not with my external mics, nor yours.

[Joseph Hanna]

It could of course very well be SoundCloud but both recordings have some noticeable distortion. Sounds like an input overload, not digital. Fuzz. Also as has been mentioned the output differences are pretty substantial. Roughly 7 dB (peak) hotter on the Zoom. I know this is just a test to see which device you like best but I think I would at least look closely at input structures before any conclusions were drawn.

On the other hand, and like I said, it could simply be SoundCloud weirdly crushing things.

[sdelsolray]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

...
I would like to know why this might be and if you agree with my findings - also which you prefer.
...

Thanks for listening..

Start over. Both recordings are quite poor and not suited for listening comparisons.

Both mic position(s) and input gain should be experimented with until you get something with (a) less proximity effect, (ii) less input gain and (iii) minimal distortion.

These are all recording engineering issues.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by sdelsolray

Start over. Both recordings are quite poor and not suited for listening comparisons.



Both mic position(s) and input gain should be experimented with until you get something with (a) less proximity effect, (ii) less input gain and (iii) minimal distortion.



These are all recording engineering issues.

Thanks, I will try again. I’m not sure why I’m getting the proximity effect as my mics are 22” apart and 11” from the guitar (as I normally use)

If I may ask, how should I balance input gain on the pre amp vs the DAW (Auria) as both allow adjustment independently?

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

It could of course very well be SoundCloud but both recordings have some noticeable distortion. Sounds like an input overload, not digital. Fuzz. Also as has been mentioned the output differences are pretty substantial. Roughly 7 dB (peak) hotter on the Zoom. I know this is just a test to see which device you like best but I think I would at least look closely at input structures before any conclusions were drawn.



On the other hand, and like I said, it could simply be SoundCloud weirdly crushing things.

Thanks, I’m not sure why but will look deeper at it..

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by RodB

I downloaded your 2 files to take a look at them and balance up the volumes etc. There was quite a difference in the dynamics of your playing between the two. To me that could help explain the differences - that in my opinion were less evident once I had done this. Your playing seemed more restrained in the focusrite example, especially at the beginning.

Presumably the recording formats were the same bit-rate etc.?

I too use a zoom H5 and feel it can be a bit bright with the XY module, but not with my external mics, nor yours.

All formats the same.

Strange that the dynamic was different as they were recorded very close to each other (trying to play the same)

[RodB]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

All formats the same.

Strange that the dynamic was different as they were recorded very close to each other (trying to play the same)

I agree it is surprising how much difference can occur, and how difficult it is to do these comparisons. It can be seen in the waveform (as well as the different overall levels) where peaks are in different places and average levels vary.

I'm interested in the comparison as having an H5 myself and the good reputation of the Focusrite (I also have a Mackie Onix Blackjack but like the portability of the Zoom and the fact that recording is without any computer running)

Here are images of the first part of each:

Focusrite:


Zoom H5:

[Joseph Hanna]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

All formats the same.

Strange that the dynamic was different as they were recorded very close to each other (trying to play the same)

I think, at least peripherally, and as a starting point you’ll need to take into consideration several things. I’ll assume that the Focusrite has an independent input sensitivity control for each mic(s). That would allow for potential issues concerning, not only input gain anomalies, but also one mic picking up more damaging resonances, and therefore overs, than the other. The answer here can only come from some test recordings and fairly careful analysis post recording. I’d look at two things post test recording while using the 2i2. Once recorded I’d center pan both left and right channels, mute one and take a look for any hints of distortion that may have occurred. I’d then take a close look at peak levels mostly by way of balance but also by way of hints as to a better seating position during the recording.. Understand if you have distortion as a result of mis-managing input sensitivity it’s forever. There’s no getting rid of it so be careful on the way in. Then it’s a matter of your meters. Auria has a pretty clear meter. You could use peak or rms (average) as your barometer. Then of course mute the other and analyze and compare the two.

As for the Zoom I’ll assume there’s only one “master” input sensitivity control. I’ll also assume there’s some form of compression/limiting on, probably as a default input setting. I’d make sure the input limiter is not on. That of course then leaves you to do your input (left vs right) sensitivity on a physical level. Adjusting the input by adjusting you seating position as it pertains to the fixed location of the box. Again the best results are gonna be a series of test recordings.

In the end time, understand and elbow grease is the answer. As far as which of the units are better? I’m bettin at the end of the day they’re close enough to make almost zero difference and the one that provides the easiest, hassle free recording experience is the one I’d choose. I always play so much better when I’m not weighted down by hardware issues.

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by Joseph Hanna

I think, at least peripherally, and as a starting point you’ll need to take into consideration several things. I’ll assume that the Focusrite has an independent input sensitivity control for each mic(s). That would allow for potential issues concerning, not only input gain anomalies, but also one mic picking up more damaging resonances, and therefore overs, than the other. The answer here can only come from some test recordings and fairly careful analysis post recording. I’d look at two things post test recording while using the 2i2. Once recorded I’d center pan both left and right channels, mute one and take a look for any hints of distortion that may have occurred. I’d then take a close look at peak levels mostly by way of balance but also by way of hints as to a better seating position during the recording.. Understand if you have distortion as a result of mis-managing input sensitivity it’s forever. There’s no getting rid of it so be careful on the way in. Then it’s a matter of your meters. Auria has a pretty clear meter. You could use peak or rms (average) as your barometer. Then of course mute the other and analyze and compare the two.

As for the Zoom I’ll assume there’s only one “master” input sensitivity control. I’ll also assume there’s some form of compression/limiting on, probably as a default input setting. I’d make sure the input limiter is not on. That of course then leaves you to do your input (left vs right) sensitivity on a physical level. Adjusting the input by adjusting you seating position as it pertains to the fixed location of the box. Again the best results are gonna be a series of test recordings.

In the end time, understand and elbow grease is the answer. As far as which of the units are better? I’m bettin at the end of the day they’re close enough to make almost zero difference and the one that provides the easiest, hassle free recording experience is the one I’d choose. I always play so much better when I’m not weighted down by hardware issues.

Thanks - very interesting stuff and I am learning lots..

If I may ask - I do have separate gain controls on the 2i2 but Auria also has an input gain control and so I am not sure which to use, and in which order, to achieve my desired input gain level?

When you say "look" at the two tracks and examine for distortion and balance, do you mean look or do you mean listen (or both) - I don't know what distortion looks like I am afraid..

The Zoom does allow me to adjust volume on either mic (as they are plugged in to it's inputs) independently so I just try to make sure the meter is reading around -6 to -12 at peak. There is no compression on - it's a dry recording on the Zoom.

Do the levels on both mics have to be matched or can I adjust to taste to accentuate the bass or trebles?

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by RodB

I agree it is surprising how much difference can occur, and how difficult it is to do these comparisons. It can be seen in the waveform (as well as the different overall levels) where peaks are in different places and average levels vary.

I'm interested in the comparison as having an H5 myself and the good reputation of the Focusrite (I also have a Mackie Onix Blackjack but like the portability of the Zoom and the fact that recording is without any computer running)

Here are images of the first part of each:

Focusrite:


Zoom H5:

There's no arguing with that!

Might it be the different levels I apparently recorded at?

I am keen to understand how to get these sounding good and deciding which is optimum when portability is not a requirement...