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  #16  
Old 08-14-2018, 04:59 AM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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The biggest clarity killer is bass. If your guitar sounds great when you play alone but gets lots in the band, quite often it is because you've got a lot of bass and lower mids. To cut through, you need upper mids and high-end. To start, roll your bass control way down. If you have it up, you are competing with the bass guitar, keyboards, and drum kit. Roll it down and, as others have said, concentrate on mids. See if this doesn't make you cut better.


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  #17  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:01 AM
Paultergeist Paultergeist is offline
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Originally Posted by stevecuss View Post
Also, I noted that you have built your own amps. That's way cool! I built an 18 Watt Plexi clone a few years ago and it was a great experience.
Yeah, I really caught that bug some time ago......was very active on a couple of amp-building forums. Currently have a 18-watt (2 x EL84s) circuit as well. Also a 4 x EL84 "Trainwreck"-style circuit, along with a Blackface (2 x 6L6), and "Dumble-inspired" 2 x 6V6 22-watter, and a single-ended 6V6. Lots of fun, but it got expensive, and once built....where the heck am I going to put all these amps?
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  #18  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:04 AM
Paultergeist Paultergeist is offline
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Originally Posted by stevecuss View Post
Oh, sorry two more questions:

1) What amp/wattage does your other guitarist play?

2) What is his opinion on what the problem is?

and bonus

3) What happens when you switch rigs? Does the problem reverse or follow you?
1. He has a 200-watt solid-state amp called a "Quilter". It is rather exotic. He runs his guitar into a Line 6 Helix footpedal board, feeding the Quilter for ambient stage sound and also an XLR out of the pedalboard into the PA.

2. He has made many of the same good suggestions as have others in this thread. He is not sure what is going on, but he seems to feel that the sound-mix still needs a lot of tweaking on the PA side of things. I think there is something more fundamental about my tone.

3. Great idea. I will see if he is open to trying that.
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  #19  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:12 AM
Paultergeist Paultergeist is offline
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Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly View Post
There are different ways to accomplish what you are trying to do..
1) Use a small amp set it about ear high, turn up and mic it.
2) A good 40 watt amp with mid-range like a Marshall Blues Breaker and no peddles. The mid-range cuts through.
3) Old school Fender amp turned up with the bass turned down and no peddles. In a band situation it sounds better than you think.
I can try some of those concepts. Maybe use an attenuator (like a "Hot Plate") between the amp output and the speakers -- just to keep the volume manageable?

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Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly View Post
I've seen really good guitarists crap out on stage because they don't run their sound for a band situation. Like switching to all kinds of different sounds and gains only to be lost to everybody. What sounds good with just a guitar most likely won't work on stage. What sounds good on stage might not sound good to the room. Gain and compression are killers.
You are describing my experience perfectly......perfectly.....
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  #20  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:14 AM
Paultergeist Paultergeist is offline
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Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
The biggest clarity killer is bass. If your guitar sounds great when you play alone but gets lots in the band, quite often it is because you've got a lot of bass and lower mids. To cut through, you need upper mids and high-end. To start, roll your bass control way down. If you have it up, you are competing with the bass guitar, keyboards, and drum kit. Roll it down and, as others have said, concentrate on mids. See if this doesn't make you cut better.
Thanks Bob......been thinking about this. I actually think I may try reducing the capacitance value on a coupling cap or two (inside the amp circuit). Maybe my builds are letting too much *flub* through......but I don't know for certain.....
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  #21  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:15 AM
Paultergeist Paultergeist is offline
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Let me also just say: THANK YOU to everyone for their helpful thoughts.
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  #22  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:22 AM
Dru Edwards Dru Edwards is offline
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Hi Paul, have you tried a boost pedal through the effects loop for your solos? I use the MXR Micro Amp and it gives a clean volume boost for my solos.

Aside from that, as mentioned, you need to know how the audience hears you so get a buddy to listen to see if you're cutting through. EQ will do wonders. Perhaps try adding some mids.

For Solos:
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  #23  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:35 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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[QUOTE=Paultergeist;5808949]


Quote:
While playing clean doesn't not completely solve the issue, it DOES make the issue much better. When doing clean-playing rhythm guitar parts, I have the LEAST amount of trouble, and can hear myself best. The clean guitar, however, just doesn't work well for a Santana / Journey / G-n-R guitar solo.
I think you may not realize it but you have diagnosed you problem If you can hear the clean tones then the problem is your distorted tone. Also realize that you do not have access to Santana's or Journey's or G-N-R's monitor engineers so you might try starting with more clean on those solos then gradually try increasing the distortion. Your job in a performance is to make your playing believable and "in the pocket" with the rest of band. To do that you have to be able to hear what you are playing.
If you can't hear it, it's irrelevant how close to "the record" the tone is . A well played in the pocket cleanish solo, is going to serve the song the band and the audience, much much much more so, than a dead on tone wise --- by gosh and by golly--- solo



Lots of good suggestions and to add to what Bob W said above understand besides bass tending to muddy clarity, distortion also tends to muddy and move the sound back in the mix and the sound stage


Quote:
No compressor. When I tried to use a compressor, it made the problem worse in my opinion.
While it certainly could have "made the problem worse " consider that is totally 180 degree opposite and counterintuitive to what good compression (correctly used) is supposed to accomplish, which is specifically to move the compressed signal further forward in the soundstage (i.e. more discernible) . However if as above the problem is that your distorted tones are so muddy that they lose clarity enough to get lost in the soundstage then very likely simply moving them forward (even with correct compression ) may not make the signal more perceptible to you.

For example As per Bobs statement consider that you might want to EQ a bass roll off " first" then send that signal to the compressor So as to not be compressing (and raising) the problem low mid and bass frequencies.
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  #24  
Old 08-14-2018, 08:44 AM
Marley Marley is offline
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I think several others have given great advice. I too struggled with this issue until I learned that there are two tones for my guitar that sound good. 1- when I'm playing by myself and 2-when I'm playing in our band. When I'm by myself, I can turn up the bass, turn down the mids, turn down the treble etc and it sounds good but gets totally lost in a band mix. I use a Fender Bassman which is an ultra clean amp.

I now try to go the Jerry Garcia route only in terms of cutting through the mix. Obviously nobody can argue that Jerry's guitar didn't cut right through that huge band mix without any ear piercing volume. I now have my treble and bass set to zero. I boost my mids to about 5-6 but also play with it for each setting we're playing in and my presence knob goes from about 2-5. I use my tone knob on the guitars quite a bit to cut out any ice pick type of stuff and I not only cut through without having to turn up to ear piercing volume but my tone sounds pretty good. A little dirt and it still works, heavier distortion and sometimes I have a hard time cutting through without cranking it up too loud.
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  #25  
Old 08-14-2018, 01:43 PM
pieterh pieterh is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob Womack View Post
The biggest clarity killer is bass. If your guitar sounds great when you play alone but gets lots in the band, quite often it is because you've got a lot of bass and lower mids. To cut through, you need upper mids and high-end. To start, roll your bass control way down. If you have it up, you are competing with the bass guitar, keyboards, and drum kit. Roll it down and, as others have said, concentrate on mids. See if this doesn't make you cut better.


Bob


This is excellent advice!
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  #26  
Old 08-14-2018, 02:53 PM
Pnewsom Pnewsom is offline
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Perhaps the other guitarist is burying your sound with his playing. You might want to look at the musical arrangement before getting into changing gear.

This sort of thing happens more than you might think.
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  #27  
Old 08-14-2018, 09:26 PM
jomaynor jomaynor is offline
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Try this experiment: borrow a Strat or a Tele, use your boost, eq, etc., pedals just like you've been doing, and see if you can hear yourself better in the mix now.

As others have said, your problem is almost certainly due to an excess of your mids and low mids which are competing with the other band members' mids and low mids in the same frequency range. Fender single-coil guitars are known for their ability to cut through a mix. They may sound comparatively thin on their own, but they stand out nicely within a band context.
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  #28  
Old 08-15-2018, 08:31 AM
clintj clintj is offline
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The question no one else has asked is what amp are you using. You say you've built a few yourself, but which ones? There's big differences in respective tone stacks that can make a difference in your ability to project your tone and be heard clearly. For instance, a Super Reverb sounds amazing solo but gets easily buried in a busy mix, while a tweed Bassman or Vox can really cut right through when needed.
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  #29  
Old 08-15-2018, 04:19 PM
Paultergeist Paultergeist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jomaynor View Post
Try this experiment: borrow a Strat or a Tele, use your boost, eq, etc., pedals just like you've been doing, and see if you can hear yourself better in the mix now.

As others have said, your problem is almost certainly due to an excess of your mids and low mids which are competing with the other band members' mids and low mids in the same frequency range. Fender single-coil guitars are known for their ability to cut through a mix.......
Great idea. I have a Strat which should be up to the task....I'll try this next rehearsal.
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  #30  
Old 08-15-2018, 04:26 PM
Paultergeist Paultergeist is offline
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Originally Posted by clintj View Post
The question no one else has asked is what amp are you using. You say you've built a few yourself, but which ones? There's big differences in respective tone stacks that can make a difference in your ability to project your tone and be heard clearly......
Well, I have tried more than one of my current amp builds. To be honest, I have lately been using the amp based on a Fender Champ (single-ended 6V6) simply because it is the lightest, and thus easiest for my to lug around. I use a Sennheiser 609e microphone on the speaker (a 12" Weber Blue Dog). This has been my "go-to" amp for the most of my playing with this band.

I have also, however, used the Trainwreck-modeled circuit (4 x EL84s) to try something different which I thought was most-different from the Champ circuit. (Also once played the 2 x 6V6 "Dumble-esc" circuit, but that seemed too gain-y).

Let me say "Thanks" once again to everyone for their helpful replies.
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