New open mic last night, small crappy PA, great sound!

[Methos1979]

I've become used to going to open mics and taking my Boss VE-8 with me if I take the Emerald or my K&K belt clips if I take the Martin because invariable the PA's available at open mics (not to mention the people running them) are always seemingly incapable of getting a decent tone out of my guitar even from the really nice, high end systems. Part of this is because of my playing style (fleshy fingertips fingerstyle). It seems most systems are set up for the pick strummers so my guitars always sound muddy. Having either of the above preamps allows me to tweak EQ on the fly and get the guitar tone out of the mud.

So last night we went to a new place that has an open mic. It's a small little tea shop that opened up and caters to the young LGBT crowd so it's very eclectic and cool with lots of young people finding their way in life. We get there and I immediately see the PA is this tiny, no-name thing, something you'd get for a hundred bucks new from Musician's Friend. I was immediately glad I'd bought my Boss VE-8. The first few acts were as anticipated, young people playing songs or reading poetry. Some were pretty good and had some game. And the sound was surprisingly decent. So when we got up there I elected to give it a go plugging straight in figuring if it was awful I'd just pull out the Boss. To my pleasant surprise it sounded pretty good. More than good enough for the three songs we performed. Go figure.

[MikeBmusic]

That's what I like about my Taylor's ES 1.3. I went to 5 open mics in 4 days, everyone with a different type of PA: 2 Bose S1s, a 'stick' (not Bose), one of those Yammies with the amp/mixer that stores in the back of the speaker, and a couple of more 'regular' systems. Not once did I have to adjust the EQs on my guitar, just kept the knobs flat.

[lkingston]

Over the past three years as I have tried to become a viable singing guitarist, I have been to many open mics. Some with great sound systems, some with pretty bad ones.

What I have found is that while both the front end (mics and pickups) and the back end (mixer, amp, speakers) make a difference, the mics and pickups seem to be the most important. With a good pickup installed in my guitar (currently a Schertler AG-6/S-Mic) and mic (Audix OM3 or OM5), I seem to get great sound out of even the humblest of PAs.

Meanwhile, I’ve heard absolutely horrible sounding guitars because of their pickups over some really fine PA systems. My voice over a Shure SM or Beta 58 seems to sound like a wet blanket has been thrown over the speakers regardless of how nice the PA system is.

The cheapest PA speakers have piezo tweeters with no crossover. To me they actually don’t sound bad at all at lower volumes but sound terrible and distorted at louder volumes. I believe that is the nature of piezo tweeters because some of the Fender acoustic amps which use piezo tweeters have the same properties (nice at low volumes, terrible when pushed) and they are not particularly low priced.

[varmonter]

I have found at these that the pickup makes all
the difference. I could never get my kk equipped
martin to sound good at an open mic. Although
it sounds great through my oudboard gear and
pa. Leaving it up to the open mic host to make
it sound good has for the most part been a train wreck.
I installed an m80 in the guitar and
now i don't ever have that issue the guitar
allways sounds ok. I think the kk through my
rig sounds better but i don't haul my pedalboard
and pa to open mics.

[RedJoker]

Originally Posted by varmonter

I have found at these that the pickup makes all
the difference. I could never get my kk equipped
martin to sound good at an open mic. Although
it sounds great through my oudboard gear and
pa. Leaving it up to the open mic host to make
it sound good has for the most part been a train wreck.
I installed an m80 in the guitar and
now i don't ever have that issue the guitar
allways sounds ok. I think the kk through my
rig sounds better but i don't haul my pedalboard
and pa to open mics.

I had a JJB system in an old guitar and it sounded really boomy at the open mic I was going to at the time. I bought a Behringer adi21 for very little money to use as a DI and it cleared the issue right up. I'd just bring a relatively short guitar cord and already have the ADI plugged into my guitar when I walked up to play. Instead of plugging into my guitar, I plugged into the pedal and away I went.

[Irish Pennant]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

I've become used to going to open mics and taking my Boss VE-8 with me if I take the Emerald or my K&K belt clips if I take the Martin because invariable the PA's available at open mics (not to mention the people running them) are always seemingly incapable of getting a decent tone out of my guitar even from the really nice, high end systems. Part of this is because of my playing style (fleshy fingertips fingerstyle). It seems most systems are set up for the pick strummers so my guitars always sound muddy. Having either of the above preamps allows me to tweak EQ on the fly and get the guitar tone out of the mud.

So last night we went to a new place that has an open mic. It's a small little tea shop that opened up and caters to the young LGBT crowd so it's very eclectic and cool with lots of young people finding their way in life. We get there and I immediately see the PA is this tiny, no-name thing, something you'd get for a hundred bucks new from Musician's Friend. I was immediately glad I'd bought my Boss VE-8. The first few acts were as anticipated, young people playing songs or reading poetry. Some were pretty good and had some game. And the sound was surprisingly decent. So when we got up there I elected to give it a go plugging straight in figuring if it was awful I'd just pull out the Boss. To my pleasant surprise it sounded pretty good. More than good enough for the three songs we performed. Go figure.

I recently bought a low budget rechargeable PA from Musician's Friend from their SDOTD for a hundred bucks. I bought it primarily for camping and other outdoor uses. It has the ability to plug in my MP3 player, I like having music in camp. It's growing on me, I seem to be using it more and more as a practice amp. Last night I plugged into it a JamMan Solo looper, MXR 10 band eq and a HOF Reverb pedal. I ended up playing on it for a couple of hours, for what it is, I thought it had a pretty good sound. I recently received a Boxking rechargeable power brick, it powered all those pedals. No wall wort needed.

I've played my share of open mics, good and bad systems. Something that sounds good to me while playing is always welcomed, regardless of it size, price point or brand.

[MikeBmusic]

Originally Posted by lkingston

The cheapest PA speakers have piezo tweeters with no crossover. To me they actually don’t sound bad at all at lower volumes but sound terrible and distorted at louder volumes. I believe that is the nature of piezo tweeters because some of the Fender acoustic amps which use piezo tweeters have the same properties (nice at low volumes, terrible when pushed) and they are not particularly low priced.

They have to have crossovers - otherwise the full sound spectrum would be coming through both the woofer and tweeter, which definitely would not sound good! What you may be thinking of is that they have two separate amps (powered speakers), one for low frequencies and one for high frequencies - the 'crossover' (actually a high-pass or low-pass circuit) is actually in the input section of the amps. The amp can overdrive the tweeter, so you get amp's distortion X tweeter distortion, and yes they sound pretty bad.

[lkingston]

Originally Posted by MikeBmusic

They have to have crossovers - otherwise the full sound spectrum would be coming through both the woofer and tweeter, which definitely would not sound good! What you may be thinking of is that they have two separate amps (powered speakers), one for low frequencies and one for high frequencies - the 'crossover' (actually a high-pass or low-pass circuit) is actually in the input section of the amps. The amp can overdrive the tweeter, so you get amp's distortion X tweeter distortion, and yes they sound pretty bad.

Actually, many don’t. The piezo tweeters naturally taper off in the lows and the woofers do the same with the highs. It works well at low levels, but as the volume levels increase, the lows distort through the piezo tweeters even though they can’t audibly reproduce them otherwise. This is why these systems produce so much distortion when you push them even though they sound surprisingly good at low SPL levels.

[lkingston]

Here’s somebody complaining about this lack of a crossover in a Fender Acoustasonic amp:

http://www.harmonycentral.com/review...effects/594686

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Methos1979

...So last night we went to a new place that has an open mic. It's a small little tea shop that opened up and caters to the young LGBT crowd so it's very eclectic and cool with lots of young people finding their way in life. We get there and I immediately see the PA is this tiny, no-name thing, something you'd get for a hundred bucks new from Musician's Friend...the sound was surprisingly decent. So when we got up there I elected to give it a go plugging straight in figuring if it was awful I'd just pull out the Boss. To my pleasant surprise it sounded pretty good. More than good enough for the three songs we performed. Go figure.

I know exactly what you mean - the church-basement coffeehouse where my wife and I played regularly a few years back had a Kustom suitcase system similar to the Fender Passport, that actually sounded quite good for both vocals and acoustic-electric guitar run direct-to-board and, surprisingly for its size, had more than enough grunt to cover the 200 or so people we'd get for a typical show. I'm thinking it's a combination of post-2K technological advances (class-D amps, lightweight high-SPL/high-power drivers, cabinet design/materials, et al.) along with the inevitable laws of physics Kingston refers to above; you'll never get the kind of low-end response and solidity of sound from a Wonder Bread-sized box that you'll get from a 3-way cab with a 15" woofer, so the emphasis will of necessity be placed on clarity and psychoacoustic balance: if the average listener thinks it's there then it is, and few in the audience - not to mention more than a handful of musicians - will notice what's missing (remember those "boom-&-sizzle" disco-style home-audio speakers of the '70s, that sold by the millions...? ). Glad your set was a success, but as we've both discovered I wouldn't be too quick to knock those MF/GC package systems - our band just purchased a $349 combo (8-ch. head, mains, speaker stands, 4 mics, and all necessary cables) which, while more mainstream in style/content, packs a whole lot of value per dollar and sounds great doing it...

[lkingston]

I have seen Musician’s Gear PA stuff two locations when I was living in Gainesville FL.: one an outdoor open mic, the other a downtown blues club. In both cases the PA sounded pretty good, but you could see that the hardware wasn’t built to last and was already falling apart after a relatively short time.

[Br1ck]

We always knew the 80s Peavey speakers hanging from the ceiling at the venue where our open mic is were old and tired. We had bought cheap ( less than $200 ea.) Behringer speakers for monitors. One night we just pointed them toward the audience and the improvement was immediate. We knew we needed a change.

Now a pair of 15" QSCs hang from the ceiling and the sound onstage and in the audience is great.

Open mics are hard due to the variety of guitars, from Esteban to Collings and everything in between. Enter SunnAudio. With their custom blender DI, all those cheap piezos sound much better. If we can get the Taylors to turn the volume down so not to be too hot, they do too. We run a separate line to the board for those that can't. But Dazzos into the SunnAudio sound the best, and K&Ks aren't too shabby.

We pretty much run EQ flat. When I was asking the RedEye designer why they sounded so good, he said it was a proper linear gain stage and a lot of eqing was done to even the peaks and valleys from a poor circuit. SunnAudio has upped the ante on a good linear gain stage.

So if you are in Half Moon Bay, Ca. on a Thursday night, drop by Cameron's at 7 and play a few tunes on a really good PA.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by lkingston

I have seen Musician’s Gear PA stuff two locations when I was living in Gainesville FL.: one an outdoor open mic, the other a downtown blues club. In both cases the PA sounded pretty good, but you could see that the hardware wasn’t built to last and was already falling apart after a relatively short time.

No problem here - we're a bunch of old farts (ages range from 64 to 76) who only play out once or twice a month and, with nearly three centuries of collective musical experience between us , know exactly how not to abuse our gear ; those Musicians' Gear speaker stands are likely to outlive at least one of us , and if not there's always a Holiday/Coupon Sale or Stupid Deal to be had...

[Br1ck]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

No problem here - we're a bunch of old farts (ages range from 64 to 76) who only play out once or twice a month and, with nearly three centuries of collective musical experience between us , know exactly how not to abuse our gear ; those Musicians' Gear speaker stands are likely to outlive at least one of us , and if not there's always a Holiday/Coupon Sale or Stupid Deal to be had...

Yes, and more and more gear is built to last my lifetime!

Those Behringer powered monitors really sound good. An I've hated Behringer for years. Budget stuff is better all the time.