Omni vs Cardioid settings in large condenser mics

[TBman]

I was just reading my mic manuals (yikes, yes!) and it said the following:

USES IN OMNIDIRECTIONAL MODE

Omnidirectional pattern is most often associated with room mic recording, be it a room mic on a drum kit or an ambience mic placed farther out from a guitar or bass cabinet, or other instrument. Omnidirectional stereo recording is also sometimes associated with ‘live’ recording techniques and classical recording. Additionally, an omnidirectional mic can be one ingredient, along with a figure-of-eight microphone, to creating a Mid/Side matrix for stereo recording. It is also worth noting that most condenser microphone capsules are, by nature, designed to be omnidirectional devices. For this reason, omnidirectional patterns tends to yield the most linear frequency response and suffer the least from proximity effect.

Ok, now I have to try omnidirectional. Any comments?

[rick-slo]

Sounds correct to me. What's your quesion?

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by TBman

Ok, now I have to try omnidirectional. Any comments?

What expectations do you have?

[TBman]

Originally Posted by rick-slo

Sounds correct to me. What's your quesion?

Is it common to mic a solo guitar in omni?

Originally Posted by jim1960

What expectations do you have?

None, I just read that others use omni instead of cardioid so I thought I would try it.

[rick-slo]

I would say it's not common to mike a solo guitar with an omni mike. Other than more likely room reflection issues the proximity
effect of directional mikes warms up the sound of the instruments some which is fills out the sound a bit. When I have used an omni
mike it seemed a little sterile to me comparatively.

[minibike]

I don’t think it’s particularly common, but I really enjoyed this article on using an Omni SDC pair to mic a guitar duo. There’s some sound samples in there too.

https://www.soundonsound.com/techniq...oustic-guitars

[egordon99]

Last weekend I recorded solo guitar and vocals with a spaced pair of SDC Omni mics.

I think it came out decent.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=665741

[DupleMeter]

check this out: https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pro...hy-they-matter


we get into specifics in the linked podcast.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by egordon99

Last weekend I recorded solo guitar and vocals with a spaced pair of SDC Omni mics.

I think it came out decent.

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=665741

That sound good, nice job.

Originally Posted by DupleMeter

check this out: https://www.pro-tools-expert.com/pro...hy-they-matter


we get into specifics in the linked podcast.

Ok, I see where I messed up in my recording comparison of the two patterns (in another thread). I kept the mics at the same distance when I switched the patterns. I'll have to move the mics in almost half the distance as the mics were in the cardioid setting. Thanks for the link.

[j3ffr0]

I have tried a couple of times and cannot produce a fingerstyle guitar recording I like with omni. The main reason is there is just too much background noise here and omni picks up everything.... noise floor comes up too high for me.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by TBman

…Ok, now I have to try omnidirectional. Any comments?

Hi Barry…
The only time I've used 'omni' mode with acoustic instruments were a couple of bluegrass groups who played and sang around a central mic when they played live…(I wore headphones to establish instrumental balance).

I later switched recording those situations to a pair of multi-pattern large diaphragm mics set to figure 8 pattern - in a modified mid-side fashion. The mics were setup vertically head-to-head (one upside down), each set to figure 8 pattern. The mic's figure 8 patterns were set at 90° angles.

I've also hung an omni as an audience mic in a church auditorium where the audience was singing & that was to be included in the recordings.

I also used one to record in a discussion panel (for remote radio show discussion panel) where participants were seated around a table. Worked really well. Large room, sound treated, and participants were all within 3-4 feet of the mic.

Actually these worked well.

[Brent Hahn]

With U47-style mics (clones, iow) the gain of the mic will be lower in omni. So you'll not only get more ambient noise, relative to the signal you'll also get more of the mic's self-noise.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by Brent Hahn

With U47-style mics (clones, iow) the gain of the mic will be lower in omni. So you'll not only get more ambient noise, relative to the signal you'll also get more of the mic's self-noise.

That's what everyone is saying more or less. Here's two recordings to compare. I didn't move the omni mics in closer - I should have. My concern with moving mics in closer is only due to my poor technique. I'm using finger and thumb picks and you can hear the picks clicking against the nylon strings somewhat, not so much with my steel strings. These two demos are with a steel string guitar though.

Cardioid:


Omni:

[Doug Young]

Omni's are going to pick up more of your room, which can be nice if you have a a a great-sounding room. If you don't, and most people recording at home don't - then you may have less luck. I hear more room sound on your omni track. Doesn't sound bad to me, really, but it's a different sound, with more of the room. With omni's the room sound is somewhat offset by being able to get really close - you should be able to get the mics so close that your biggest problem will be not hitting the mics as you play. So that makes the guitar louder relative to the room. Everything's a tradeoff and balancing act.

Keep in mind that mic patterns are not as black-and-white as we tend to think. The frequency response and the polar pattern may vary by frequency. Most "cardiod" mics turn into omni's at lower frequencies, for example.

[jim1960]

Originally Posted by TBman

That's what everyone is saying more or less. Here's two recordings to compare. I didn't move the omni mics in closer - I should have.

I think you hit on a common problem with these kinds of comparisons. People will sometimes get caught up in making distances and conditions identical. That never makes a lot of sense to me. What would make more sense is playing with the omni pair and finding what you think is the best sounding track you can get from them in your room. Then doing the same with the cardioid pair. There's no good reason to make the distance from the guitar, the difference from each other, etc., identical. It makes more sense that the goal should be to figure out what works best for you and provides the most pleasing results.