Number of notes in a scale

[SongwriterFan]

I was at an open mic last week, and a guy (while on stage, playing his songs) asked a "trivia" question: How many notes are in a scale?

He proceeded to insist that 7, 8, and 11 were all incorrect, and that 12 was the only correct answer.

I resisted the urge to be pedantic and speak the truth:

There are 11 notes in the chromatic scale (not 12, why would you count the root note twice?)

There are 7 notes in a major or minor scale (no 8, why would you count the root note twice?)

There are 5 notes in the pentatonic scale

Etc.

I can't think of any scale that has 12 notes.

[agfsteve]

There are 12 notes in the chromatic scale, e.g.:

C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A Bb B

[rick-slo]

He is incorrect. There are twelve different notes available in western music (a chromatic octave). Scales have less (e.g. major 7 notes, pentatonic 5 notes, etc.).

[cdkrugjr]

If his question doesn’t specify “Western Common Practice Chromatic,” then the answer is a resounding, “Well it depends . . . “

Every culture has its own way to divide the octave, and modern theorists have invented scales with MANY more than twelve pitch categories.

[mr. beaumont]

Scales are a set of notes, of varying number. This guy is an idiot.

[stanron]

Surely a scale is selected notes from an octave of a selected key.

If the question was "How many notes in an Octave?" then I suppose 12 is correct because you would count the root twice but there's no rule saying you can't tell lies or make mistakes when talking between songs.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

I was at an open mic last week, and a guy (while on stage, playing his songs) asked a "trivia" question: How many notes are in a scale?

He proceeded to insist that 7, 8, and 11 were all incorrect, and that 12 was the only correct answer.

Sounds to me like he was making a weak kind of joke. As if to say "This next song is going to use all 12 notes" (some songs do, especially in jazz), as if that would disprove the notion that a "scale" contains less than that.

It's just playing with words, nothing more. (Being loose with the definition of the word "scale", essentially.)

[KevWind]

Hum well if your talking about just the actual notes then yes 7 in the diatonic and 5 pentatonic

On the other hand usually when sung or played then it is 8 and 6 - go figure

Don't think it matters much in the big picture as long as one gets the gist of the musical application..

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by agfsteve

There are 12 notes in the chromatic scale, e.g.:

C Db D Eb E F Gb G Ab A Bb B

D'oh! Not sure how I messed that up . . . I counted them, just like that. Wonder which one I missed?

Strange that he mentioned some people often say 11 . . . I wonder why that is?

[Mr. Jelly]

Wow. This thread seems like an example of how a simple question gets convoluted to the point that there is no correct answer.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Sounds to me like he was making a weak kind of joke. As if to say "This next song is going to use all 12 notes" (some songs do, especially in jazz),

Nah, it was literally just something he was using to fill time (not sure why).

I also forgot at the time about the seven MODES of a major scale.

And I just now discovered even more scales that few have heard of:

https://www.pianoscales.org/exotic.html

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

…I resisted the urge to be pedantic and speak the truth…

Hi SF
Probably a good decision.

Sounds like it was 'open mic night' not 'trivia night'.

[rllink]

Originally Posted by Mr. Jelly

Wow. This thread seems like an example of how a simple question gets convoluted to the point that there is no correct answer.

That's the truth.

[SongwriterFan]

Originally Posted by ljguitar

Probably a good decision.

I occasionally make the right decision.

When he asked the question, I immediately answered (in my head) SEVEN . . . because I was thinking of a major scale. Do, Re, Mi, So, Fa, La, Ti

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by SongwriterFan

I occasionally make the right decision.

When he asked the question, I immediately answered (in my head) SEVEN . . . because I was thinking of a major scale. Do, Re, Mi, So, Fa, La, Ti

That would probably be most people's first answer.

And if he then said that was "incorrect", he would - of course - be incorrect himself! Because - incontrovertibly - that is a "scale" and it has "7 notes".
I.e., if his question was (word for word) "How many notes are in a scale?" that's a silly question to begin with. The only sensible answer is "which scale?" or "what kind of scale?"

He would have been correct if he was saying that a "scale" doesn't have to only be 7 notes. It can be fewer, or more. The "chromatic scale" is 12 notes, and the only argument there is whether "scale" is the right word, simply because it's every note we use, and the normal sense of "scale" is a selection from those 12.

In other words, sometimes being pedantic is the right way to bring down someone who is being vague in order to mislead, or to make a feeble joke of some kind (a joke which only works if you use words wrongly).

Naturally I can understand that an open mic is maybe not the place for pedantry even when you're right, and it might well be better to let an idiot just be idiotic. So you just groan and shake your head, or whatever - because oneupmanship is the wrong game to play; he wants to play it, but you don't have to join in. (I mean, just play the song, stop talking theory like (a) you know what you are talking about, or (b) anybody cares!)

(It's a very trivial example of that old saying that you should never wrestle with a pig: because you both get dirty, but the pig likes it. )