Help tuning a mandolin

[Mike12]

To explain, I have a really good mandolin but too many guitars and other factors have kepy me from it. I took it out today and put the tuner on it and the strings in standard tuning feel very tight, too tight I feel. Is there a tension comparisom to be made with guitar or other method to get in the right ball park. I dont want to be tuning and octave high, breaking strings or anything else for that matter. Thanks, Mike

[frankmcr]

Here, this'll get you in the ballpark.



In my experience mandolin strings tend to feel tighter than guitar strings.

"Tighter" meaning the strings feel as if they're not far from the breaking point, whereas guitar strings can be loose enough to bend a step or so (even on acoustics).

I would guess that the extra tension on mandolin strings is because if you're playing a tremolo passage you don't want the strings to flex.

[Mandobart]

Your mandolin (in standard tuning) is tuned an octave higher than a standard tuned guitar (but in fifths of course, not fourths). The mandolin D string should sound the same as the 12th fret on a guitar D string. The mandolin E string should be the same as the 12th fret on a guitar E string.

String tension is higher on mandolins than guitars due to the much shorter scale for one. Just a warning - your mandolin strings will laugh at your guitar calluses and gleefully shred them right off.

[keith.rogers]

It’s not just being an octave higher, the scale length is relatively longer at somewhere in the 13 7/8” - 14” length. (Imagine your guitar string tension if it was tuned up a whole step.) And there are two of every string .

One thing that can be confusing is that notation for the guitar is usually written in the treble clef, but an octave up, so the top string on both instruments (e.g.) will be written in the (same) 4th space, but the guitar is actually playing an octave lower. Dunno the reason - I guess someone figured long ago that it would be easier than making aspiring guitarists learn the bass clef….

[pjheff]

Originally Posted by Mike12

I dont want to be tuning and octave high, breaking strings or anything else for that matter. Thanks, Mike

There’s no way you’d be tuning an octave high without breaking strings (or anything else for that matter).

[Mike12]

Hi and thanks for your excellent insights. I used the comparisoms Mandobart suggested. I have a twelve string acoustic and used the relative tension at the twelfth fret. The strings during tuning had no sort of sound until they come under reasonable tension. After that it was using a tuner and going back and fore between the twelve string, so success. I'm not concerned with callouses lol but now going to look for threads on string recomendations as the ones I have are pretty ropey. Thanks to all. Mike

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by Mike12

....but now going to look for threads on string recomendations as the ones I have are pretty ropey. ...

D'Addario EJ74 are medium gauge PB and probably the most common strings in use if I had to guess. Like guitar strings, you can go lighter, heavier, hybrids, coated/treated, monel, etc. Some folks have other brand preferences, but for starting out, I'd stick with something easy to find and relatively inexpensive. Here's D'Addario's options:

https://www.daddario.com/products/guitar/mandolin/

[Mike12]

Thank you Keith. Really enjoying playing it again, its so different to a guitar.

[Br1ck]

Go buy a six pack of whatever gauge E string you use. If you are setting your intonation you will likely break one or two. They don't have too many detunings in them before they break.

If you are coming from guitar, your callouses are likely not quite in the right spot. For me it was one string on, one off. It took some time to build up the callous for mandolin. And yes, tension is much more than for guitar.

And let me remind you about a proper setup. Mandolin is much more exacting an instrument. Find a pro. A fret level is worth it.

[leew3]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Just a warning - your mandolin strings will laugh at your guitar calluses and gleefully shred them right off.

Yep! Since I've taken up mandolin my calluses are bullet proof! I would add, don't wash the dishes and then think you're going to get away with playing your mandolin without pain

[warfrat73]

There's about zero chance that you'd get the e course an octave too high.

They'll pretty much break if you look at them funny even tuned as they're intended to.

I had one break on me yesterday while I was loosening it.

[rmp]

I went to a lighter gauge on my Mando (10s) and it made a huge difference in playability and tuning

[guitar344]

Originally Posted by keith.rogers

It’s not just being an octave higher, the scale length is relatively longer at somewhere in the 13 7/8” - 14” length. (Imagine your guitar string tension if it was tuned up a whole step.) And there are two of every string .

One thing that can be confusing is that notation for the guitar is usually written in the treble clef, but an octave up, so the top string on both instruments (e.g.) will be written in the (same) 4th space, but the guitar is actually playing an octave lower. Dunno the reason - I guess someone figured long ago that it would be easier than making aspiring guitarists learn the bass clef….

The hi G on 12 string is still tighter.

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by guitar344

The hi G on 12 string is still tighter.

You lost me. Tighter than what? And what "high G?"

To satisfy my own curiosity, I'm going to make a leap here and compare the G strings of a 12-string guitar set and G string(s) of a mandolin set, using D'Addario's published tensions for their untreated phosphor-bronze sets. (To clarify, these two are tuned to the same pitch when in standard tuning.)

Medium gauge 12-string set, PB EJ39:
G wound (.025) - 32.81 lb
G plain (.010) - 22.94 lb
Total tension - 55.75 lb

Medium gauge mandolin set, PB EJ74 (IMO/IME, probably the most common gauge in use on "bluegrass" type mandolins):
G wound (.040) - 24.48 lb
Total tension - 48.96 lb

So, medium-to-medium, an advantage to the 12 string. But, from my perspective/IMHO, not a lot of people use medium strings tuned to "E-standard" on a 12-string guitar. For another comparison:

Light gauge 12-string set, PB EJ38:
G wound (.023) - 27.90 lb
G plain (.008) - 14.68 lb
Total tension - 42.58 lb

I'd say a more typical usage might give the nod to the mandolin, but at the start of this, I don't think the comparison was mandolin and 12-string, but 6-string guitar. A 12-string is just another beast entirely - I'm not trying to arm (or fingertip callous) wrestle anyone here; and my hat's off to those than can manage one of those for hours in a day!

[Goat Mick]

As suggested earlier, have your mandolin set up properly. It will make a huge difference. The stings are under much higher tension but with a proper setup they will fret very easy. Mandolin strings can sit much lower than guitar strings because they don't vibrate in as wide an arc as guitar strings.