Tonewood Costs

[hat]

or to put it another way - I work for a company that builds engines. Now, the difference in the same basic engine with 50 HP and 150 HP as far as parts cost is minimal. But the saying is ' we sell horsepower'. So, the cost of the 150 HP engine is quite a bit more than the 50 HP model. Sure, you can buy the 50 HP engine, and save yourself lots of $$. But, if you really need the extra HP ( or just want it), then you need to pony up the extra $$ - cause that's the way business works!

[musicman1951]

If you wanted to add two eggs to your breakfast order would you expect a charge of $.32 for the eggs? $.60 to include the cost of the minute it takes to scramble them?

[T Texas]

To anyone suggesting that I think Luthiers should sell this wood at cost....c'mon that is not at all what I said. To all the others, thanks for the thoughtful replies.

[ross748]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Bingo.

Luthiers charge what they think consumers are willing to pay. Lumber suppliers charge what they think luthiers will pay.

Some woods are more expensive than others, but not usually in proportion to the markup being applied.

Supply and demand.

Bingo! That is straight and to the point.

[stringjunky]

Originally Posted by hat

or to put it another way - I work for a company that builds engines. Now, the difference in the same basic engine with 50 HP and 150 HP as far as parts cost is minimal. But the saying is ' we sell horsepower'. So, the cost of the 150 HP engine is quite a bit more than the 50 HP model. Sure, you can buy the 50 HP engine, and save yourself lots of $$. But, if you really need the extra HP ( or just want it), then you need to pony up the extra $$ - cause that's the way business works!

Yep. I'm looking at die grinders and the difference in price is nearly triple by the same manufacturer just because one has variable speed and the other is fixed.

[justonwo]

In general, the uncharges on tone woods are insane. Factor of 5 or 6 is typical. But if I were a luthier and my customer was willing to pay that, I would charge the same.

[mcduffnw]

Originally Posted by justonwo

In general, the uncharges on tone woods are insane. Factor of 5 or 6 is typical. But if I were a luthier and my customer was willing to pay that, I would charge the same.

Customers might NOT be so willing to pay that "markup factor of 5 or 6"...or more sometimes...if they new what the actual markups were in relation to what actual cost was.

Customers sure as heck don't want to pay those kinds of markups in all of their other retail purchase situations...just ask WalMart and Amazon...or rather ask the Mom and Pop stores that were wiped out by WalMart and now Amazon...and look at all the threads here on the AGF about "how to" grind dealers for a discount below MAP on a guitar purchase.


duff
Be A Player...Not A Polisher

[Steadfastly]

Originally Posted by T Texas

hmmm, that makes it seem even crazier that it's such a big upcharge

It's what the market will bear. Some people like to drop names and prices on things as well to boost their ego and companies take advantage of this. Now, I am not saying that is the reason for everyone ordering special woods, accessories, etc, etc. but some do. It is the way some people are.

[Misifus]

I’m going to mention a word that many may find objectionable - profit! You know, in addition to being reimbursed for his material costs, the builder also has pay for shoes for his children, healthcare costs, life insurance, retirement, tool and equipment costs and depreciation. Being an independent businessman offers very few benefits, those costs have be passed on to their customers. If they don’t make a profit, they must turn their hands to some other way of making a living. Profit isn’t an option, it’s manditory. That includes a markup on expensive materials.

[tomiv9]

It's about supply and demand and what the market will bear. Say bourgeois bought a bunch of really high African blackwood years ago for next to nothing. Say that hes down to his last few sets, of such quality that they could never be replaced. How much would you charge? Prob what other reputable builders would. It has nothing to do with what he originally paid. It's an investment. I've heard some builders get so attached, they almost don't won't to use their last sets. Only for a stupid amount of money. Because they know it will be unlikely they'll ever get to build with that quality wood again.

[bufflehead]

About ten years ago I wanted to commission a new saloon table for my sailboat. I heard that a local marine cabinet maker was retiring and selling his business, so I went to see whether he had any walnut for sale. I was initially hoping to fabricate the table myself. He had a board of imbuia, which is a Brazilian walnut, that had been in his shop for decades. I asked how much, and the price seemed exorbitant, $800, but he claimed that he could get that price for the board almost instantly because of its age and the elaborate fiddling. So I asked how much it would cost him to transform the board into a table top, showing him the dimensions I wanted. He answered, "$200 if you finish it yourself, and $100 per coat extra if you want me to varnish it."

I paid for four coats of varnish, and ended up with a gorgeous $1,400 table top.

It's probably a good thing we can't commission guitars the same way. Think how bad the GAS would be around here.

[Jabberwocky]

"It's probably a good thing we can't commission guitars the same way."

Great story. And I agree with you that it is a good thing that guitars cannot be commissioned that way because luthiers and craftspeople need to eat well and sleep well too. It is a business, after all. My credo is this: I am in the business of taking other people's money so I should allow other people to take my money too. Lay economist here but money needs to circulate and work hard. Quid pro quo and the world becomes a better place.

Sorry for the armchair philosophising. Long day.

[3notes]

Originally Posted by T Texas

To anyone suggesting that I think Luthiers should sell this wood at cost....c'mon that is not at all what I said. To all the others, thanks for the thoughtful replies.

I've oftened wondered how much it costs a builder to get the exotic tonewoods into his shop.

Larrivee, at their website, has some great pictures from the "field" of Jean and others scoping out wood. I believe in a foreign land. And making it into slabs. And stacking it. On a pallette for shipment. Sure, they are doing it for profit but still, just a ton of work. And travel.

Breaking down the cost of the pieces that make a guitar, imo, isn't how one should look at it. It's a piece of art that gives back to the player. Thats the value of it. And lets remember, profit isn't a bad word.

In a painting, I don't care how much the oil paint cost, or the canvas. All I know is that I'm willing to pay big bucks for nearly anything that brings me joy.

[Pachowder]

I have built a guitar or two and I also would wonder that with certain woods that tend to be harder to bend or more brittle, there is also a chance that it could crack during bending. If it's a $500 set and the luthier breaks it the luthier wouldn't eat that coat and throw another $500 set. He or she may price that in as well. Add to that the trouble of getting some of that wood, the outlay of money for it to,sit there and it all adds up.

[Jabberwocky]

T Texas, rest assured that I didn't think that you were suggesting that a luthier sell the wood at cost. This puzzler does come up and it usually comes from, uh, non-business types, folk who are in the service industry such as teachers and teachers and teachers...

Not bagging on teachers but purely anecdotal, it is really difficult to try to make a dime off them. I hear this from people in the sales trade and I thought it was a joke until I reconnected with a highschool mate who is a teacher. Observed him once taking up 20 minutes of a salewoman's time on bedclothes and bought nothing. Then he turned to me and said sotto voce he knew where he could get the same thing...for $10 cheaper! I said that he should not have taken up her time fielding your questions that she could have used on a paying customer. These people work on commission. He looked at me and said in a quizzical voice, that is what she was hired to do, answer questions.

I am beginning to think that the stereotype is true...

Look, I love a bargain as much as anyone else but if I have no intention of buying I won't waste anyone's time. That is why I don't walk into guitar shops to try out their stuff when I know I have no intention of buying from them. If I do and find something I like I feel compelled to buy from the shop even though I know I can get it cheaper online.

Sorry for the digression and more armchair philosophising. Really long day.