Giging with a keyboard player

[diego]

Anyone has experience with gigging with a keyboard player? When it comes to acoustic gigs, most of the time I'm solo, sometimes with a cajon player, but I'm due to play with a keyboard player covers of a popular pop/rock songs and it seem like a big challenge, so I'm looking forward for some advice from seasoned musicians.

What I'm most interested in, who do you think should be setting the groove throughout the song? Should I strum the rhythm, or leave it for a keyboard player to set the rhythm, and just play fills/solos/etc? Or does it depend on the song?

[FrankHudson]

I played with a keyboard player most of my playing life. Keyboardists differ with what they know and play, just like guitarists do, but there can be issues with the keyboard covering a lot of harmonic territory with fully voiced two-hand chords. Five and six string cowboy guitar chords may not mesh in with that well.

For me, in my situation this fit were I was at, and caused me to develop in a certain way: I often don't play full chords and it often worked best for my keyboardist is for the keyboard setting the groove (but he was also the vocalist, and the groove has to fit the vocalist). I play a lot of two note "chords" and lines that fit in with the keyboardists right hand or as fills. If you have songs where you have worked out chord voicing you like, you may be able to simplify them to work with the keyboardist, dropping out notes that you don't need to play because the keyboard is covering them.

You can play a lot of rhythm too with just two or three note chords, even on an acoustic.

I would sometime think of myself as a bassist when playing with a keyboard player. What notes (again usually single notes or double stops) will fit in with the harmonic material that the keyboard's left hand and vocals are already covering. Obviously, I'm not in the bass clef with a guitar, but the principles can work similarly.

Alternatively, the keyboardist can adapt by playing much more sparingly than they would playing solo. As my long-time keyboard playing friend has some physical issues, I've taken to playing keyboards on more of my recordings. I play very simply when I'm accompanying full chords on the guitar, often playing one or two notes at a time.

Obviously, very talented and knowledgeable musicians (I'm neither) can do some amazing things in either role beyond these "one simplifies and changes their role", but they are approaches that can help.

[Gordon Currie]

It is a HUGE challenge!

Piano and guitar of course can both play chords as well as melody/harmony. The problem arises when everyone is doing it at the same time.

I tend to think of keyboardists as equivalent to 1.5 guitarists in terms of how much they can overplay and fill up the musical space.

Your idea of letting the keyboardist handle the rhythm and chords is good. It seems like most keyboardists are incapable of laying out with their left hand for any amount of time, and it is that area that you will want to avoid.

If the keyboardist has experience AND skill with playing with guitarists, they will know the pitfalls and solutions already.

If not, the fact you have a strategy beforehand will ensure it will sound decent.

The musical maturity of the players involved also is important. If everyone is concerned with maximum notes per minute and filling every space, then it will be a trainwreck in no time.

[Al Acuff]

I love jamming with a GOOD keyboard player. There's nothing difficult about it.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by diego

…What I'm most interested in, who do you think should be setting the groove throughout the song? Should I strum the rhythm, or leave it for a keyboard player to set the rhythm, and just play fills/solos/etc? Or does it depend on the song?

Hi diego

Those are VITAL questions!

I've played with pianists, and keyboardists. There is a huge difference.

• I've played with classical players, and they are glued to charts.
• I've played with jazz pianists who are often adept when playing with charts or even spontaneously. Some are more flexible musically, and can play many styles. Others are stuck in jazz…
• I've played with keyboardists who don't know even chords, and are pretty impossible to work with. They often just want to show off their computer built arpeggios and exotic loops. That's fine if it fits the music, but is very distracting if your style doesn't call for that style.
• And I've worked with skilled keys players who know how to lead when asked, and how to play backing when asked.

I'd certainly never play without a thorough discussion and audition if you are adding them to your gig!

[Al Acuff]

Have a listen to 'One Man Band' by James Taylor. The album is a live concert recording of guitar, vocals and keyboards.

[rmp]

it can be challenging. As a guitarist you need to work to find your space, most keyboard players are used to taking all of it.

They don't do it intentionally I've been playing keys/piano as a second instrument for about 20 years now. it's just a different animal entirely.

[DCCougar]

Originally Posted by FrankHudson

...there can be issues with the keyboard covering a lot of harmonic territory.... Alternatively, the keyboardist can adapt by playing much more sparingly than they would playing solo....

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

It is a HUGE challenge!

Piano and guitar of course can both play chords as well as melody/harmony. The problem arises when everyone is doing it at the same time.

I tend to think of keyboardists as equivalent to 1.5 guitarists in terms of how much they can overplay and fill up the musical space....

A guitar has 6 (or 12) strings. A piano/keyboard has 88 strings. Yes, it takes some serious compromise to bring these instruments together. Basically, the keyboard has to lay way back and let the guitar take some of the musical space.

My main instrument is keyboard, but I also love guitar. On this version of Embryonic Journey, I bring in a keyboard part at 1:06. It generally takes space that the guitar leaves behind.

Of course, if the keyboards take the lead, the guitar is left to grab whatever space it can find, like Lee Ritenour does with Dave Grusin's Mountain Dance.... (Grusin - what an incredible player!)

[dtpolk]

Most keyboardists I've played with like to voice chords. For me. the best bet here was to simply comp around what they were playing. A good discussion with the keyboard player before actually playing will give you good ideas.