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Old 08-19-2019, 10:40 AM
FrankHudson FrankHudson is offline
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Default The joy of software amp/effects modeling

I've long been inconsistent with how I approach guitar, particularly electric guitar, sound modification. I've spend a lot of time playing guitar>amp>chord and I've also spent time with two mod treadles (such as a wah and volume) and effects in between.

But for recording really extreme stuff I'm increasingly turning to effects and amp modeling software. It's just practically simpler while offering more options.

The routing is less complicated

What you can control with mod treadles is more flexible

Time based effects sync'ed to beat divisions? Just click.

Change your mind? Just modify the tracks effects after you played them and see if you're right. A lot easier than trying to de-reverb or de-distort a track printed from external effect. Where's the button for that?

Cheap! Even just what is just included in Apple Logic for example could keep me exploring till the cows come home. Logic Pro X costs less than one boutique pedal. (Yes, I know cool hardware is still cool, but practicalities...)

Don't have room or neighbors or earplugs for a 4x12 stack and a dimed 100 watt amp--or maybe you do, but don't need it often? Equipment rental? Attenuator box? Or just select a close enough approximation from a menu. Yes, I know it doesn't feel the same (why aren't my pants legs flapping?) but practicalities....

I can see as a practical matter performer might want to use their stage setups while recording because of familiarity or to make it easy to reproduce live, but for what I do this isn't much of a factor. Similarly I can imagine professional studio guys may have a level of trust and familiarity with favorite "real" rack effects. It works, it's paid for. It'll never be made obsolete by some OS or DAW upgrade.

I still have stuff from my pedals and rack mount effects days still, but I don't think I've used any physical time-based or filter effects (other than a "real" wah for old times sake, and rarely) in the past year or two. Real amps, real gain-based effects, yes, but not time and filter based effects.

My point? It's not just a golden age for guitar quality at any price point, it's a golden age for recording effects needs.
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Old 08-19-2019, 11:54 AM
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Bob Womack Bob Womack is offline
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I'm with you, except that so far I'm running hardware modelers. I'm on my third generation of modeler, a Helix I picked up two weeks ago on Helix 2.8.1.0 day. Yesterday I had my first good long session in front of the studio monitors with it and wowzer, is it a move up in clarity and definition. I've never had a client complain about my modeled sounds, not once in fifteen years of modeling. I'm finding that modelers are beginning to steal the show from my amps, both in my studio work and in my live work. I find myself on kind of a twisting path back and forth between analog and digital but I can tell you that my typical these days work involves the modelers.

Now, mind you, I've used my recording engineer skills to develop some "special sauce" in my models that makes them sound a notch above. Isn't that funny?

Bob
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Old 08-19-2019, 03:20 PM
AndyZ AndyZ is offline
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Same here... Helix user as well. I should preface I spent 5 years at Line 6 as Product Design Manager and have played everyone of those real amps that were modeled next to the modeled version. Some get you close to the ballpark and some spot on. But that could be said for real amps as well. One Marshall off the line could be killer and the next one a dog. Plus with the advent and ease of using impulse responses (highly recommended!), the modeling game is even better.

I've made plenty of records using modeling (usually Line 6) over the years and no one has ever said it wasn't real. Some with some pretty famous players. In blind listening you couldn't pick real vs modeler in a mix context.

There are a few tricks that really take it up a notch. For me I always print a DI through the Helix, which sometimes will get reamped via Helix Native. Due to the roundtrip of the captured Helix and the ID there is a a slight millisecond in latency, enough that it works well in Helix Native for doubling parts. You could even slide the DI track up 830 milliseconds and you will get a decent enough double if you can't play the part exact (but that's always preferred).

The other thing that really makes a huge difference which gives me that amp in a room feel, is a blend in some presets I've made for UAD Ocean Way Room Reverb plugin. I adds the right amount of depth. Solo'd it sounds like someone cracked open the ISO room door just a couple of inches.
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Old 08-20-2019, 06:31 AM
Vognell Vognell is offline
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The Helix line provided pretty convincing modeling without breaking the bank for most people.

I use the Helix Stomp with a $300 Headrush 212 Full--Range, Full-Response speaker. I've built a few variants off of the factory acoustic presets, and have been pretty happy with them.

I have downloaded a few impulse responses for acoustic guitars, but have not had a chance to play with them yet. Will have some time next week to try them out.

Can easily use the same rig for bass, keyboard, and electric guitar.

Not bad when the total cost, including a Mission Expression Pedal, is only about a grand. One box, one cabinet, one expression pedal allowing amplification of 4 disparate instruments... and doing it fairly well.
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:37 AM
paulp1960 paulp1960 is offline
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I very much enjoy playing my electric guitars into Logic Pro X using the Scuffham Amps S-Gear plugin.

It sounds so much better than my Marshall Code 25 modeling amp.
It's hard to imagine I would get a better sound by recording a real amp through a microphone.
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Old 08-20-2019, 07:46 AM
MikeBmusic MikeBmusic is offline
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"Modelers" - a sore subject to a lot of valve amp guitarists!

When I got my first software modeler - Line 6 Gearbox - I loved it. My big old Fender amp was languishing in a spare bedroom, and my old stompboxes would never get used (when I did go to use them several years later, a few didn't even work any longer).
Now all of a sudden I had access to delays and choruses I had never been able to afford as stompboxes.
I ended up selling the old Fender, and bought a Line 6 Spider IV modeling amp. Then got PodFarm 2 software and did most of my recording DIed with PF added after tracking.
Helix is 2 generations better for modeling (but a little pricey!)

These days I generally mic the amp for recording, though - as the difference I find is the 'feedback' (not squeal) of the sound in the room, being picked up by the body and pickup of the guitar. It's a 'feel' thing for sure, and may all be in my head, but when DI tracking with headphones, I don't get the same feel. I often also record a DI track at the same time, though, and it sometimes gets used instead of the miked track.
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Old 08-20-2019, 04:52 PM
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I'm fairly new to using my Helix LT, but I've enjoyed every minutes of it, so far. I play mostly acoustic, so the first challenge for me is to find time to plug in and play with one of the electric guitars.
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