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Old 09-04-2009, 04:05 PM
Coke_zero Coke_zero is offline
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Default How do you go about learning a song?

I was just wondering how people go about learning a song here.

I find it very difficult to memorise anything (probably as I am never relaxed). Anyway, how you do all learn your new song, how much time a day do you try to practic and on average how long does it take to learn a new tune that is verging on your top ability?

It would be interesting to see different peoples approaches. Also, how do you "know" a tune is within your ability before you try to learn it.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:18 PM
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One thing to do is to listen to the song a lot, to get the melody into your head. If you can hum, sing, or whistle along with a recording and stay on the melody, it will help a lot. If you can't hear the melody, remembering how to play the song by memorizing a series of movements separate from the sounds they produce is going to be much harder. Most people don't go to that extreme but may only know some of the "landmark" notes and not the ones in between. That'll make it much tougher to play because you'll be trying to figure out the song and execute it at the same time. Listen to it or play it with guidance (like sheet music or along with a record) until you're sure what it sounds like. Then, all you'll have to worry about is getting your hands to match the notes you hear in your head. That can be pretty hard too, but it's a big improvement over trying to play a song that you haven't gotten familiar with.

I'm sure others will have additional suggestions. This is just one approach I've found helpful.
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Old 09-04-2009, 04:59 PM
ewalling ewalling is offline
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The way I learn a song is a bit like Mozart's parody of Salieri in the movie Amadeus! Seriously, I use a combination of tab, score and CD, if possible, to learn fingerstyle pieces I like. Like many others, I slowly learn the piece, section by section, first learning the fingerings, then committing the fingerings to memory, and then passing the "brain" memory onto the "finger" memory. It takes some work, but the rewards are worth it for me; the pieces I can sit down and play straight through give me great pleasure. In terms of deciding a piece is too difficult - I'm not always so adept at spotting this from the start and I can be some way into a piece before reaching the conclusion that as it's taking me so long, it's probably not for me. For motivation, I have to mix pieces I already know with learning the new piece.
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:05 PM
thall thall is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coke_zero View Post
I was just wondering how people go about learning a song here.

I find it very difficult to memorise anything (probably as I am never relaxed). Anyway, how you do all learn your new song, how much time a day do you try to practic and on average how long does it take to learn a new tune that is verging on your top ability?

It would be interesting to see different peoples approaches. Also, how do you "know" a tune is within your ability before you try to learn it.
This should be an interesting thread..............

First I need to locate a song I like enough to invest the time into. Someone here mentioned Mona Ray by Leo Kottke. I found the song on U-Tube and used Video piggy to download it. (Using WinAmp, the video can be stopped and re-'wound' easily is 5 second increments.)

Next I order the tab book from the artist. I believe in helping the artist out, and feel it is wrong to do otherwise.

I limit my practice to 1.5 hrs. per day. For it seems better to give 100 percent for that time than to marathon the sessions. There is a point of diminishing returns, and that is mine. I do go over the tabs before I go to work in the morning (just reading the new sections) and mentally go through the few bars I can commit to memory a couple times during the day. When I practice that night I can pick things up much faster because I'm not starting cold.

How long to learn a song? At the top of my skill level (Mona Ray is) I figure a month to get it 'under my fingers'. This means I can play through the song without tab. It is memorized, but far from perfected (or 'presentation grade') . How long it takes to get to that final stage depends on your devotion to the particular piece.

I spend one hour each session working on the new piece, the next thirty minutes I work a song that needs work. Each day that last 30 minutes is spent on a different song, and I don't work on more than 5-6 songs at a time. Once a song makes it into the finished list (I've played it a hundred times, or more by then) only then will I look for something else to start on.

How does one know if a song is beyond one's ability? Well honestly almost every song I have learned has involved learning new techniques many of which, once learned have helped me get the next song done. So being beyond one's ability is a natural state, but not to be feared. Three years ago I took on 'Clap' (or 'The Clap' as it has become known) by Yes, a song well beyond my abilities, a song I thought I would never, ever, be able to play. Three months of working exclusively on this to get it under the fingers. When finished, I had the courage to take almost anything on.

Love conquers all, if a piece speaks to you, you will practice it until you have it. If not, the skills developed in the trying will help later. Once you get into it, you will know what projects are 'doable'.

When I get new tab, I will turn to the most difficult passages, and work on them to ease my fears of not being able to complete the work.

Lastly, don't worry about how long it takes. I remind myself where I was a year ago and where I am today, and realize that all the time invested has been worth it!
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Old 09-04-2009, 06:07 PM
Coke_zero Coke_zero is offline
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In all honesty, I have played the guitar for about 10 years from the age of about 11 (although only seriously for about 2 years now) and I can count the number of songs I know off by heart on one hand, quite embarressing really.
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  #6  
Old 09-04-2009, 08:35 PM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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One of the ways I learn is by transcribing. As with studying (and I always tell my university students this), putting something down on "paper" is a very effective memorization/comprehension tool.
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Old 09-04-2009, 09:02 PM
catnine catnine is offline
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I'm going back to 1963 so take this for what it is. I used to listen t the radio if I did not the record and play along and get the bass or root notes down then try to find the chords off thatand when I searched around for the chords I would play along and see if they sounded right . I kept going until I could play along and if would work and adjust chord positions from there .

Do it that way and it will stick , we did not have tabs then , we had the ear and a handfull of chords. We built off of that at least I did .
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Old 09-05-2009, 06:05 AM
815C 815C is offline
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Lets say I'm learning an instrumental piece that is 32 bars long. Here is my approach for memorizing the arrangement.

1. I will memorize bar #1 and play it over and over until I have it memorized very well.

2. I will them memorize bar #2. I will play bars 1 & 2 over and over until I have them memorized very well.

3. I will them memorize bar #3. I will play bars 1 - 3 over and over until I have them memorized very well.

.
.
.

32. I will them memorize bar #32. I will play bars 1 -32 over and over until I have them memorized very well.

33. Once I have the entire piece memorized, I will play in IN SLOW MOTION with both hands TOTALLY RELAXED until it is burned into my muscle memory.

34. Then I will start playing the song.

The more you do this, the faster it goes. You will get to the point where you memorize & add phrases rather than bars.
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Old 09-05-2009, 06:10 AM
mmmaak mmmaak is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 815C View Post
Lets say I'm learning an instrumental piece that is 32 bars long. Here is my approach for memorizing the arrangement.
Could you please be more specific? What do the "..." mean?
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Old 09-05-2009, 06:19 AM
815C 815C is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mmmaak View Post
Could you please be more specific? What do the "..." mean?
Those mean as soon as I learn the first 3 bars, I immediately memorize bar 32 and entire song just magically falls into place.
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Old 09-05-2009, 11:33 AM
Fliss Fliss is offline
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My approach is very similar to what 815C describes. I learn a song in bite-size chunks, repeating the chunk over and over until I have it, and building it up by adding each new chunk onto the previous chunks.

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Old 09-05-2009, 11:44 AM
daniel1703 daniel1703 is offline
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I tend to learn the song by practising bar by bar w/o memorizing first until I can play the whole song while looking at the music sheet.

Thereonafter, I'll break the song into chunks. There're some parts of the song that'll usually be repeated so I'll put those together.

Then I do what 815C does, except i memorize 'chunks'.

My experience with the guitar is just 4 months though.
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Old 09-05-2009, 01:02 PM
shawlie shawlie is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Coke_zero View Post
In all honesty, I have played the guitar for about 10 years from the age of about 11 (although only seriously for about 2 years now) and I can count the number of songs I know off by heart on one hand, quite embarressing really.
I know what you mean. I've been playing on and off for twenty years, I guess, and up until last year I knew about three songs. I'd make up stuff all the time, but never learned anything "real".

I've probably learned, written or arranged 80 or so the past year and a half (not that I can actually play them all without a fault, though..), and it seems like the first few are the hardest and then it gets easier to memorize things.

It seems like the hardest thing is to learn an unfamiliar song - just because you don't know how it goes yet. Once you really have the melody in your head, you'll get a better idea of how to play that melody. I'll sing/hum along in my head sometimes, and it kind of helps my fingers remember what comes next.

Lately, I'll find a song I like and play it from tab for a few days. Then I get a better idea of how the whole song goes and have played it quite often to maybe remember some parts of it.

Then I decide it's time to memorize it, and start playing til I forget. Then I check the tab and start over. I keep going like this (sometimes for days) until I have it all in my head. Once I start trying to remember it, I only use the tab when I forget, though.
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Old 09-06-2009, 06:17 AM
ScottAllyn ScottAllyn is offline
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I also learn songs in bite-sized sections that are usually 6 to 8 measures long (i'll sometimes go partially into the next measure if it still contains notes that are part of a phrase). I work on each section until I can play all the way through it without too many pauses or hiccups and then move onto the next section. As I'm working on that next section, I'll frequently start over from the beginning and play/stumble my way through to my current point in the song. By the time I tackle the last several measures, I can usually play my way through 3/4 of the song with minimal hiccups.

With Mmmaak's recent transcription of Larry Pattis' Waltzing Matilda, for example, I think I did measures 1 - 8, 9 - 16, 17 - 25, 26 - 33, etc... and I'm doing similar sections with Larry's arrangement of Ashokan Farewell.

Mmmaak makes a good point about how doing your own transcribing can speed up the memorization process. I'm working on Ashokan Farewell without a detailed tab and it's sticking to the walls of my brain cage significantly faster than Waltzing Matilda did.
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Old 09-06-2009, 08:58 AM
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Work in sections. Repeat, repeat, repeat.

Get to know the melody in your head.

IMO the real problem is midway in the process of nailing a piece. Once you have repeated enough
to get the muscle memory going for chord shifts and fingering there is a tendency to turn off the
mental process and just rely on muscle memory. Combat that by when playing always thinking
a measure (or perhaps even further ) ahead of what you will be doing at that time in the piece. This and
playing with expression keeps your mind involved in the process rather than going on auto pilot.
You will commit pieces to memory much faster.
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