Banjo pegs for OM guitars that WORK

[mercy]

Important to me are the cost and weight. I can see putting one on the bass string for special effects.

[devellis]

The way planetary tuners work has always fascinated me. It's such a clever mechanism. These new ones are more clever still. Kudos to Misters Ford and Rickard.

[Big Band Guitar]

Originally Posted by Frank Ford

No similarity. Peg Heds are revolutionary in that they look exactly like wood friction pegs (or, a few like metal patent friction pegs) but with clever internal 4:1 planetary gearing.

These new tuners have a cycloidal drive, and are the first ever with the non-geared high ratio mechanism.

follow this link to the video of my big banjo tuner to get a rough idea of how it works:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dfs--w3lorw

Beautiful design, very nice machining, beautifully engineered. Almost makes me want to build another banjo so I can use those tuners.

With that said personally I never liked banjo style tuners even the 4 to 1. I put 15 to 1 guitar tuners on my slotted head banjo with the 5th string through a brass tube to the same tuner. It sat in its case for over 6 months, when I took it out it was perfectly in tune. It's a banjo it's supposed to go out of tune.

[ripdotcom]

thats funny, i thought this was the first thing to throw away on a golden era.

[Frank Ford]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Frank, you referred to the tuner in the video as your "big banjo tuner," and that leads me to a question that occurred to me when I watched the video earlier today: is that tuner in the video the size they're going to be, or is that an oversized prototype that you're showing off to demonstrate the concept? Because that does seem to be a big old chunk of machinery.


Wade Hampton Miller

C'mon, Wade - you know I wouldn't do that. Check the picture of the OM-18 with tuners mounted - they're normal size.

The BIG tuner is for the BIG banjo:

[Earl49]

Very cool idea, Frank!. As a mechanical engineer who put himself through school working as a machinist years ago, I fully appreciate the design. Well done sir!

[FormerFoodie]

This is amazing news. I have a Circa where John Slobod went the "full monty" in building a vintage type guitar. For example, in addition to bar frets, the guitar has old school banjo type tuners.

I love the look of the banjo style guitars, but am not a fan of the low gear ratio. This looks like I could have my cake and eat it too! Pretty cool news!

Thanks for sharing!

[rusty5hi]

I've read this thread with interest and it seems to have been running for awhile. Can anyone tell me if these are available for purchase yet? Looks to be a very cool design.

[Wade Hampton]

No, they haven't officially hit the market yet. The manufacturer hasn't been revealed yet, either.

I'm sure Frank will come back to this thread, or start a new one, to let us know when they become available for the general public.


Wade Hampton Miller

[Martin Keith]

Originally Posted by jklotz

Sure wish they'd make something like that with the stops on them, so I could put it on my tele for a drop D. A lot of folks use those Keith tuners for that, but 4 to 1 ratio? Not a great solution in my book.

Obviously I'm rather biased...but my opinion is that a higher ratio would be undesirable for a de-tuning banjo peg, simply because you would have to turn the button too far to get the desired drop. On banjo, at least, those changes usually have to be quite quick to work in the context of a tune.
In-between songs, sure...but to bend within melodies as banjo players do, I posit that 10:1 would require too much button throw to really be practical.
A look at the guitar videos by Jon Gomm and Alex Misko will illustrate what I mean...picture them having to turn those buttons 2.5 times as far while playing, and you'll get the idea.

That having been said: these new gears are extremely cool, and my hat's off to Frank and Bill for proving that there are still useful waters yet to be charted.
These guys continue to impress, both in concept and in execution.

(PS: just to clarify the source of my above-mentioned bias - I am not only Bill Keith's son, but also the current steward/operator of the Beacon Banjo Co. which makes the Keith de-tuners mentioned above. Also, to clarify further: despite that, I will be delighted to watch Frank and Bill's project go as far as they would like to take it, in whichever direction. This is a small community and we all support each other.)

[mikerowesr]

The design of the d-tuners bypasses the gears and works directly on the string post. Tuning is 10:1 or 16:1 but d-tuning is 1:1. Very short throw.

[nickv6]

Originally Posted by numb fingertips

For those of us without a clue, why banjo tuners on a guitar? Is there some kind of advantage?

Well, for a start, if designing a headstock one could position the tuners to be in a straight line with the speaking length of the string which would help tuning stability enormously.
Nick

[Martin Keith]

Originally Posted by mikerowesr

The design of the d-tuners bypasses the gears and works directly on the string post. Tuning is 10:1 or 16:1 but d-tuning is 1:1. Very short throw.

Interesting!
We put quite a bit of time into designing the throw of our tuners - it's the reason our banjo 2nd and 3rd strings have different spool diameters, so the button throw is roughly equal for the half-step 3rd string bend and the full-step 2nd string bend. (Obviously a banjo-specific parameter).

I have actually had people who had an issue with the throw being too short in some cases, so that might be something to keep in mind as well. Though the 4:1 ratio is low for most guitarists, it is such a standard among banjo players that they tend to have a "baked-in" intuitive feel for how much twist results in how much pitch change.

If it bypasses the gearbox, I'm assuming it will be actuated by something other than the button itself. Needless to say, I'll be very curious to see what these two clever guys have come up with.

[swarfrat]

Man - if that had a big enough barrel to get a bass string through - I got some ideas.

[RustyAxe]

IMO a 10:1 ratio might as well be a peg in a hole.