Your opinion/experience with CG action?

[dwalton]

Hi - I'm thinking of returning to classical guitar after a pretty long layoff, and I wanted to get some opinions around classical guitar action height (12th fret, top of fret to bottom of string, E and e, that whole thing).

Background: the guitar I'm looking at buying (it's in-hand) has a superb setup - a touch of correct relief (no adjustable truss rod), nut slots cut properly, plenty of extra saddle (3+ mm on both E and e). I'm using HT strings (which I prefer). So everything checks out there. Only thing is, the action is just a bit higher than I'm used to for classical. This one has the standard 4mm/3mm action at the 12th fret - I get that, all good. I'm more used to around 3.2mm/2.7mm with my previous CG (lowish, I know), but never experienced buzzing. This new guitar sounds great, even as new as it is - maybe it likes that action.

I'm experienced and capable of lowering the saddle to get the action closer to what I'm used to - easy, I have the tools. Nothing else needs fiddling. I'd probably target 3.5mm/2.7mm or so. BUT, I'm kind of thinking of just using the current, standard 4mm/3mm action, just to see how it goes. I immediately notice that a bit more LH pressure for the trebles with finger 4 is needed, but my other fingers don't really notice it, and I figure my LH and pinky will come around soon enough.

So, after all that, my question: do you prefer your CG action around 4mm/3mm (or above?), or do you go lower?

Thanks in advance for wading through this and offering your thoughts and opinions.

Cheers!
Doug

[canuck7]

I’m no expert, but personal preferences are the rule. If you play loud and really bang out the classical tunes, setting it higher is definitely needed. I play for myself and don’t strum or do flamenco!! So, I love low action.
This is what K Yairi sent me when they built my CYTM…I chose the lower action…I guess you have to experiment with your style of playing…

[Ned Milburn]

Those measurements given are "high" and "medium" rather than "standard" and "minimum".

Use the minimum given for "standard" or medium action. For acoustic, some of my clients use as low as 1.4mm/1.8mm (but this is rare) which is "extra low". Again acoustic, 1.65mm-1.9mm for "low" action.

On a classical, nowadays most players prefer a lower action to improve alacrity and dexterity (aka: speed!). 2.5mm-3.25mm (treble/bass) is good for standard. Add to, or remove from this measurement for "high" or "low" action. Minimum for a classical is realistically about 2.0mm-2.5mm treble/bass. Flamenco is regularly near 1.75mm-2.0mm.

[canuck7]

Originally Posted by Ned Milburn

Those measurements given are "high" and "medium" rather than "standard" and "minimum".

Use the minimum given for "standard" or medium action. For acoustic, some of my clients use as low as 1.4mm/1.8mm (but this is rare) which is "extra low". Again acoustic, 1.65mm-1.9mm for "low" action.

On a classical, nowadays most players prefer a lower action to improve alacrity and dexterity (aka: speed!). 2.5mm-3.25mm (treble/bass) is good for standard. Add to, or remove from this measurement for "high" or "low" action. Minimum for a classical is realistically about 2.0mm-2.5mm treble/bass. Flamenco is regularly near 1.75mm-2.0mm.

Thanks for that information!! I have really preferred lower action, and have searched around for lower action minimums...I am slowly lowering some of my guitars and finding what's comfortable, but will put your post into my 'book of guitar knowledge' that I keep handy with measurements of guitar size - lower bout, etc that I prefer. It's a journey of finding what works best for your hands and style of play!

[pentaprism]

All of my classical guitars have 3.5/2.5mm actions or lower (with the strings pressed down at the first fret).

The Flamenco has 3.25/2.25 actions.

[CoastStrings]

My suggestion would be to get a second saddle and sand it to your preferred action.

Keep the original as it is in case you want to restore the guitar to its original state.

[canuck7]

Well, this post motivated me to spring into action this weekend and I sanded down the saddles on my two classicals. The first one is pretty new and the action was ridiculous - 5 mm high e to low E at the 12th fret. I took off 3+ mm and this managed to get it down to ~3.5. I’m going to leave it there for a bit and see how it plays. Unfortunately there’s not much room to go farther (the setting of the neck was off when it was made). Yesterday I took a good 2 mm off my K Yairi saddle and the result was 2.75 mm high e and 3.0 mm low E at the 12th fret. I think both guitars play without any buzzing…except when I first started playing the Yairi it sounded/played horrible…then I noticed my fingernails!!! Sanded them down too!


Agree with previous post, always good to have a spare saddle.

[FrankHS]

I'm never happy with anything less than 3mm treble, 4 mm bass. To play forte with free stroke seems impossible for me without that clearance, unless I accept a little bit of buzz, which I hate. Lots of players play CG too gently in any case, to accommodate low action, apparently. I don't get that, there's often more tone to be found with 3mm or more. I hear David Russel likes low action, but I'm no DR, and he probably has all $20k guitars, minimum.

[canuck7]

Originally Posted by FrankHS

I'm never happy with anything less than 3mm treble, 4 mm bass. To play forte with free stroke seems impossible for me without that clearance, unless I accept a little bit of buzz, which I hate. Lots of players play CG too gently in any case, to accommodate low action, apparently. I don't get that, there's often more tone to be found with 3mm or more. I hear David Russel likes low action, but I'm no DR, and he probably has all $20k guitars, minimum.

That's good to know...that's why I thought I'd leave the FE43 at 3.5 mm. The Yairi is a much smaller instrument, intimate, and I play sort of Dominic Miller style on it...it might be a bit low at 2.75 mm on the treble side...but I will have a spare with a slightly higher setup to try...
Thanks for sharing this as we all try to unravel the mysteries of the classical guitar!!

[Gitfiddlemann]

Originally Posted by canuck7

then I noticed my fingernails!!! Sanded them down too!

Ouch!!! Were you tortured? Seems a little extreme.
I take it you don't like nails.

[canuck7]

Originally Posted by AndreF

Ouch!!! Were you tortured? Seems a little extreme.
I take it you don't like nails.

I don’t keep long nails but they are short in this pic…I cut them short every 10 days or so, and do reststroke playing for two to three days, then I can play normally with nails once they’ve grown out just a bit. Sanding down those saddles did take a bite out those two…’m’ and ’i’. We’ll see how they grow out!! But the saddles are perfect!!