Will it get better?

[koolimy]

Hi, I just strung up a Spruce/Tamarind Bolt-On Classical Guitar kit (Hauser style) a few days ago, and I am a bit disappointed/perplexed by the sound.

The best way to describe the sound, is weird. The A and D strings seem tremendously sensitive, with tons of power and punch. It's almost scary to play those strings because it feels like they could get too loud. The low E doesn't have the same power and punch but it's firm and provides a nice foundation for the guitar.

The problem is with the treble strings. They sound a bit weak. While I feel scared to play the A and D strings, I feel like I have to put more effort into playing the nylon treble strings. It depends on the technique but often the treble strings don't ring out. Note, I'm not playing it in the classical position and my technique is the same I use when playing my steel string.

Do you think the guitar will be able to get better? I am still dialing in the setup, although I'm getting quite close to my target. I also have intonation issues, I think primarily with the G string that might be coloring my perspective.

This is my first time building a classical and the only experience I had with classical guitars was so long ago (almost 30 years) that I totally forgot how they responded and sounded. Would appreciate any comments!

[Simon Fay]

I've never built a classical just steel strings ... but most of my guitars have a "hot" string or two during the first couple days. The trebles are often a bit jangly or brash and don't "mesh" with the sound. This clears up sometimes within a few hours but always within a few days.

This is the major settling in time period ... the first few days. After that, my guitars sound pretty good but continue to develop noticeably for up to 2 weeks. After that, progress is much slower and is what people think of in terms of "opening up".

My understanding with classicals is that treble response is much harder to get. I imagine the hot strings may settle in a bit but most likely the treble response will stay weak. Maybe some of the classical builders will chime in and give you some advice.

[koolimy]

Originally Posted by Simon Fay

I've never built a classical just steel strings ... but most of my guitars have a "hot" string or two during the first couple days. The trebles are often a bit jangly or brash and don't "mesh" with the sound. This clears up sometimes within a few hours but always within a few days.

This is the major settling in time period ... the first few days. After that, my guitars sound pretty good but continue to develop noticeably for up to 2 weeks. After that, progress is much slower and is what people think of in terms of "opening up".

My understanding with classicals is that treble response is much harder to get. I imagine the hot strings may settle in a bit but most likely the treble response will stay weak. Maybe some of the classical builders will chime in and give you some advice.

Thank you for your reply! I was a bit afraid that your last paragraph might be the case so it is something I'll just have to accept about my guitar. The trebles don't necessarily sound jangly or brash, but they lack volume and fullness(?) if that makes any sense.

I do remember my steel string kit guitar built went through a lot of changes, as you mentioned, in the first few weeks. It sounded a bit muffled and soft when played with fingers, but with time it started sounding much more open and responsive. This classical guitar sounds amazingly responsive in the D and A strings already but the treble strings just don't have the same pop.

[Rudy4]

Originally Posted by koolimy

Hi, I just strung up a Spruce/Tamarind Bolt-On Classical Guitar kit (Hauser style) a few days ago, and I am a bit disappointed/perplexed by the sound.

The best way to describe the sound, is weird. The A and D strings seem tremendously sensitive, with tons of power and punch. It's almost scary to play those strings because it feels like they could get too loud. The low E doesn't have the same power and punch but it's firm and provides a nice foundation for the guitar.

The problem is with the treble strings. They sound a bit weak. While I feel scared to play the A and D strings, I feel like I have to put more effort into playing the nylon treble strings. It depends on the technique but often the treble strings don't ring out. Note, I'm not playing it in the classical position and my technique is the same I use when playing my steel string.

Do you think the guitar will be able to get better? I am still dialing in the setup, although I'm getting quite close to my target. I also have intonation issues, I think primarily with the G string that might be coloring my perspective.

This is my first time building a classical and the only experience I had with classical guitars was so long ago (almost 30 years) that I totally forgot how they responded and sounded. Would appreciate any comments!

Are you used to classical guitar tone? Weak trebles is a common complaint from those who are accustomed to playing steel strings.

Two suggestions:

1. Play with a pick. A 1.4mm Primetone is what I use with my nylon strung acoustics.

2. Classical strings are often sold in treble and bass sets. If you like your bases then you can experiment with fluorocarbon or titanium trebles for a brighter top end tone.

Will it improve over time? Not a lot. Once the strings settle in I wouldn't expect a bunch more volume or change in tonality. The biggest obstacle to overcome when getting into guitar construction is the tendency to over-build. A guitar sounds best when it hovers on the edge of self-destruction. Your task is to come as close to that as possible without it doing so.

[Quickstep192]

Sounds like you need to tinker with strings.

As Rudy mentioned, you can mix different Bass and Treble sets.


I ultimately ended up with Hannabach medium tension Bass set and Carbon Trebles. The first and second strings are med-high tension and the third is a high tension carbon.

There are a lot (too many!) options.

[redir]

There is no doubt about it that the guitar will change dramatically in the first 24 hours and then even more for the first week. The first thing I do when I put strings on a freshly built guitar is tune it up, play a couple notes and chords, and hang it on a hook with a Tonerite for 24 hours.

I'd say come back this time next week and let us know what you hear.

[IndianHillMike]

If you're curious to see some of what's changing, it can be fun to mess around with an FFT filter to see what's happening to the various frequencies over time. Get an FFT app (various free ones out there), put your phone in front of the guitar and give the bridge a little bonk with the strings muted. You should see three prominent spikes under 400 Hz (body, back, top) and can see how those change over time. My shopmate who builds classicals has found that it takes 3-4 weeks for the frequencies to more or less settle in with the top changing the most (I think he says it can drop by about a semi-tone over that time).

[koolimy]

Thanks for your replies, they give me quite a lot to think about.
I should probably look into different strings, as these strings are kinda placeholders. Things might change or not depending on the strings. Of course, I'm guessing the classical guitar string world is more complex compared to the steel string world LOL.

I noticed after continued playing that a huge problem was my right hand technique. Depending on how I hit the strings, the sound would be very different, especially for the treble strings. I could make them ring out if I hit it a certain way, make them sound thin and with short sustain if I hit it another, make them sound fat and warm if I hit it a different way. I'm guessing this "expressiveness" is in some ways a good thing?

I don't know if it's the guitar going through changes, my technique improving, my hearing adjusting to the guitar, or maybe the setup getting dialed in, but the trebles don't sound as anemic as yesterday. They are at least there and it doesn't feel as jarring to play the treble notes. The tone is still heavily skewed toward the bass, but at least I can interpret it as a pleasant darkness or warmth in some ways.

[koolimy]

I recently had a chance to play the guitar hard for a few moments and I noticed that when played firmly, there is almost no difference in balance or volume between the treble strings and the bass strings. I am reckoning the difference is in responsiveness. The bass strings are tremendously responsive while having not much headroom, while the treble strings are not as responsive but have a lot of dynamic range.

When played at a level where all strings sounded equal in volume, I actually liked the tone of the trebles! They have a sort of singing quality that was pleasant.

The good thing about building your own guitars is that you are somewhat forced to understand and love an instrument for what it is. It's still a process but I am learning to appreciate the guitar's unique voice more and more!