Is the J45 really a dreadnought?

[Dotneck]

Originally Posted by Pura Vida

Ha! I didn't read this thread at all, but that was my exact reaction. Glad it was posted so early in the thread.

Yes, he certainly has a strong opinion on the subject…��

[Silly Moustache]

Hi Guys, I'm sorry I'm late to this "party" - I was out driving in my Toyota CR-V! We were collecting my wife's Ford Mini-Cooper!

I've been having real trouble trying to put a CD in my tape deck, and I can't squeeze my spectacles under my eyelids today, and I can't get any voltage from my gas hob!

What were you asking ?

Oh yes, elephants and battleships!

Martins and Gibson and their many misnamed copies.

I have a theory! Gibson were all about archtop mandolins and guitars, but possibly in response to Martin's (and other's flat top succeses, but :

1926 - Gibson introduced their first flat tops - L-o and L-1 (Think the supposed Robert Johnson model).
???? - Martin made guitars for Ditsons (publishers and drum makers)
this included a large guitar called a 111.
1929 - (I think) 1929, Ditson went out of business.
1929/30 Martin introduced the "OM" a 14 fret shorter version of their 000.
Intended as a rhythm guitar for tenor banjo players.
1931 - Martin introduced a 111 style guitar and called it various things including: Dreadnought.
1932 - Gibson introduce the L-00
1933 - Martin "OM" discontinued.
1934 - Martin introduce the "OM" version of the Dreadnought, and Gibson introduce the "Jumbo" and the Roy Smeck Hawaiian.
1935 - Gibson introduce the Advanced Jumbo (Martin type scale length)
1938 - Gibson Super Jumbo introduced (mainly for movie cowboys)

Right! Here's my theory!

By the '30s Martin and gibson were in a battle for market share.
Gibson won the dance band/orchestra market with their archtops but various forms of "folk/country music was gaining in interest due to radio and recording technology.

Gibson saw the Martin "ORIGINAL" Dreadnought and (my theory) kinda copied the shape (so called slope shoulders) but put a short scale 14 fret neck on it.

Martin "OM'd the dreadnought by flattening the body shape and sticking a thin 25.4" scale neck on it.

Gibson responded with the Advanced Jumbo.

Later , of course Gibson introduced copies of the 14 fret dread, but called them funny bird names.

Yes it id D for Dreadnought, and J for Jumbo, and SJ for Super jumbo, and , oh, the Southern Jumbo and so on serving to confuse everyone.

Now, seems every builder (including Collings bless their cotton socks) confuse jumbos with dreads, (but rarely vice versa -apart from when Gibson produced some terrible J50s with dreadnought like shoulders).

Some (due to Gibson's vaguery) don't understand the difference between a Jumbo and a Super Jumbo.
Why didn't they call them .... Mammoths??

My feet are cold I need to find some foot gloves!

[ewalling]

One question we might ask ourselves is, who is more entitled to label a guitar either a dread or a jumbo: Gibson and Martin or the informed guitar-playing and buying public?

[6stringedRamble]

I only now realized that the j-45 is the style common with the kinda music I'm interested in like Woody Guthrie. I've been learning guitar for several years. I've got an Alvarez AD70 which IMHO is a very traditional dreadnought guitar. I've also got an Seagull S6 which I just now kinda realized appears to have sloped shoulders. Can anyone confirm?

Anyways I'm not a great guitar player, but really want a j-45 style guitar, and have considered some of the cheaper Epiphones.

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

Ahhh!!!! So the 14 fret ones are actually "cruisers" not "dreadnaughts".

Or frigates?

(Finally, we get to talk about boats!)

[bufflehead]

Originally Posted by ewalling

One question we might ask ourselves is, who is more entitled to label a guitar either a dread or a jumbo: Gibson and Martin or the informed guitar-playing and buying public?

No one owns language. Words evolve just as the living organisms that use them do.

Please note that neither "dreadnought" or "jumbo" are registered trademarks. This is because the words existed prior to being co-opted by guitar manufacturers. Other trade names, such as "Lifespan" are registered, in this case because Martin invented it and trademarked it for a type of string. So while D'Addario is not permitted to put out a line of "Lifespan" strings, there's nothing to stop them from labelling a line of strings "dreadnoughts."

There's no way to legislate ambivalence out of language. If Silly Moustache wants to call a certain type of guitar an "000," and I prefer to call it an "auditorium" guitar, we can still be friends.

Okay. Now we can go back to arguing whether alpine cheese can be called "Gruyère" if it's not produced in Switzerland. https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/12/b...rt-ruling.html

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by bufflehead

Or frigates?

(Finally, we get to talk about boats!)

Nope. "Battle cruisers." The Battleship's same sized, same armed, less armored and thus faster cousin ship.