Long read - Pretty Frustrated with 5 star "go to" shop -

[docwatsonfan]

I would not spend any more time or $$$ at that shop

I myself would make a few shims out of thin cardboard, like the kind backing small pads of paper

These are usually 1/64 thick,and one or two under the saddle should solve your problem

[Br1ck]

The most dreaded words and most often heard words ever spoken to a tech is "as low as you can without buzzing," but you gave them the specs you wanted and got back what you asked for. Now perhaps a good tech should know better, ignore what you asked for, and set it up higher. But he doesn't know how you play. Now the way out is a new saddle, and it is not entirely reasonable they foot the bill. They gave you what you asked for.

I know one tech that would have sent you on your way to someone else. He just would not have done what you asked. 50 years of experience has taught him a lot. He will not even do a set up without a fret level. He's not known for his tact either.

[SpruceTop]

Originally Posted by Silly Moustache

So, you bought a Guild dreadnought. D50.
The dreadnought that is called by the builder as a "bluegrass" guitar.

And you want an action of .079" on bass and.059" on treble.

1st question - WHY?
What sort of music are you tending to play on a guitar specified as a flat picking rhythm style guitar?

You say is buzzes - yes, of course.
You don't say what gauge strings you have on it, but medium gauge would be appropriate.
You don't say what relief it has or you prefer.

I play Collings guitars which have a factory setting of 3/32 and 2/32" (.093 and .062)
I prefer .100 to .080 minimum - on ALL my guitars whether large or small and whether wearing mediums or lights (minimum) and wih a slightly higher relief than their specified .005" - more like .008.

I can't imagine any dreadnought being played without buzzing at the specs that you mention.

I suggest that you review this with a mentor or two.

You nailed it Andy!

[Glob]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

The most dreaded words and most often heard words ever spoken to a tech is "as low as you can without buzzing," but you gave them the specs you wanted and got back what you asked for. Now perhaps a good tech should know better, ignore what you asked for, and set it up higher. But he doesn't know how you play. Now the way out is a new saddle, and it is not entirely reasonable they foot the bill. They gave you what you asked for.

I know one tech that would have sent you on your way to someone else. He just would not have done what you asked. 50 years of experience has taught him a lot. He will not even do a set up without a fret level. He's not known for his tact either.

I'm with you on this one. Sorry to the OP, but you can't have it both ways: give instructions to get something you want and then complain that you didn't know what you wanted because the outcome wasn't correct. The tech would have thought you knew what you preferred, he asked you a couple of questions, you trusted the internet rather than the shop and he went ahead and did as instructed. Your call. Your responsibility.

PS: the internet is useful, that doesn't mean it's right.

[goodry]

No, I said the reason I brought the guitar in for the setup was that I felt the action was too HIGH.

He said, for a bluegrass player, it's perfect. That is the only advice that I was given. When I said do you think I can get it to this internet spec, he said he could. Not, yes, but there will be buzz. Before he did the work, I said, if the action was too low, is it correctable.... He said for sure, we can just put in a new saddle. When it returned with buzz he said the way to fix this was with a plek job.

So, am I at fault for believing what the tech says?

Originally Posted by MThomson

You've repeated a couple of times that you expected them to tell you it was too low. They did. They said your Ashton was fine. You disagreed and showed them Internet information to prove them wrong. And then you're upset with them for not arguing with you. If you put yourself in their shoes, I'm not sure that seems fair.

As others (and the luthier) stated, this is fixable with a new saddle. And the advice to find what you like instead of relying on random info on the Internet is a great idea.

[Mbroady]

Originally Posted by Br1ck

... But he doesn't know how you play..

It is rare that I go searching for a new tech but if and when I do, and they don’t ask for a sample of my playing before a set up, then I would pack up my guitar and find someone else.

[goodry]

That's good advice.

Originally Posted by Mbroady

It is rare that I go searching for a new tech but if and when I do, and they don’t ask for a sample of my playing before a set up, then I would pack up my guitar and find someone else.

I will also bring it another guitar that I like and play for a bit, for clarity, I never said, I wanted it lowest without buzz, I said I think the action is too high and gave him what I had found what I thought was generally considered low action.

I do take responsibility for asking for the low spec, I didn't know any better, but I expect direction if there is any concern over what is being asked for. And then after it still buzzed, correct the saddle instead of put it on an expensive machine, saying this is how to correct it.

I do IT for a living, if somebody brought me a machine and asked to run a 4k TV and have the best gaming experience, but they want to change the keyboard and mouse, or they bring in a component that clearly won't meet their expectations, I would consult them to pick a different direction.

My main frustration lies in not having been given better advice, some intervention and then being given the highest price possible option after the initial setup... instead of the lowest cost, most reasonable option.

[rokdog49]

Originally Posted by goodry

No, I said the reason I brought the guitar in for the setup was that I felt the action was too HIGH.

He said, for a bluegrass player, it's perfect. That is the only advice that I was given. When I said do you think I can get it to this internet spec, he said he could. Not, yes, but there will be buzz. Before he did the work, I said, if the action was too low, is it correctable.... He said for sure, we can just put in a new saddle. When it returned with buzz he said the way to fix this was with a plek job.

So, am I at fault for believing what the tech says?

Trusting that’s the way it went down and based on what you are saying, not in my book.
If he warned you of potential buzzing issues that would be different.
That is precisely what the gentleman who works on my guitars warned me about when I asked his advice on me setting up my own guitar lower than what is recommended. So I adhered to his advice and...no issues.

[goodry]

Originally Posted by Italuke

Wait. With owning that many really nice guitars, you're saying this is the first time you've had a guitar set up?

(Scratches head...)

Yes, this is the first guitar I felt like spending the extra money to play exactly how I wanted it instead of investigating ways on my own to make it as close to what I want. Also, at $70/setup. 20 guitars adds up.

I decided to save my money for the most expensive guitar I had. Down the line, I'll have the other ones done.

If you had a civic and a Ferrari.... You're more likely to hand wash the civic and get the Ferrari detailed.

That was my approach.

[JERZEY]

Originally Posted by goodry

I live in the dallas area, for the sake of the shop and because I haven't had the chance for them to make it 100% right, i'll keep their name omitted for now... but, on google, reverb, yelp, everywhere ... they are 5 stars over thousands of reviews (or hundreds in the case of google) or 4.8, you know what I'm saying - I searched their google rating, there was 1 1 star rating, and 1 4 star rating, the rest were all 5 stars.

So, needless to say, from reviews and anecdotal experience - this place seemed amazing. I'll say before having them work on my guitar, I loved going in there, Never pressured you, let you play the $10,000 martins without saying a word, great place to a\b or just play with the toys you cant afford...

I had spoken in a previous post that I picked up a 2011 Guild D50 Bluegrass.

Adirondack over rosewood - Dtar pickup

I felt the action was too high, I googled what 'low' action is considered for an acoustic guitar, I did not know this answer - nor, what I prefered to be low action ... so what I came up with was:

at the 12th fret - from this website - https://www.guitaranswerguy.com/guit...string-height/

Low E: 2.0mm (0.079”)
High E: 1.5mm (0.059”)

I took it to the tech, he said he didn't feel the action was high, that it was perfect for a bluegrass player, but, he could in fact bring the action to that spec.... I showed him the spec on the phone and explained I had googled this... Maybe laying out the fact that I really didn't know much about action or that maybe I was a mark or something along those lines - I go play the expensive stuff while he lowers the action, he gives it back to me, i play it for 30 seconds, it's like a beehive -- buzzing all over the fretboard - I bring it back, ask him if he hears the buzz ... he says he doesn't, WTF. Ok, he plays it and then is like, yeah - I hear it ... So, the next thing .. we take a flat edge, what looked to me like a carpenter's square.. and he shows me that from fret to fret, they are unlevel -

BUT WAIT! We can solve this - we have a Plek machine. Ok. Does Not charge me for the setup - we Plek it for $230.

I go to pick it up today, hit the low e string, immediately, still buzzes ...... the original tech notices it and says he wants to play with it a bit.. the owner of the shop messes with it a bit, plays with the truss and get's some of the buzz out.... plays some pretty fingerpicking and says "You're just going to be strumming on this anyways aren't you?" which I took as, you're new, you wont be doing anything fancy, I can leave this and you wont know the difference .. Also, It shouldn't matter what I want to do with the guitar, I could expect that I am going to train a chimp to play, the fact is, it shouldn't buzz no matter what style I play or how I play it, within reason..... we're in a loud shop, I should have played it there but I wait till I get home. While i'm there the initial guy goes "It's a misnomer that there wont be ANY buzz anywhere on a guitar" and "I have to really hit it with a hard attack to get it to buzz" ... I don't feel it should buzz at all, Also, It's an adirondack top - you have to hit it a little harder because of the stiffness of the wood to get it to do its thing - I should have taken that for, your guitar is going to buzz, you just have to deal with it.

Meanwhile, when we were first talking, before he even began working on it, i ask if it ends up being too low, can we do anything, he says he can shim it or something along those line OR - he said a new bridge would have been $100 - Yes, I admit - I brought him the spec, he did exactly what I asked for, but, In a way, I cant help feel a little bit bitter - If I go to my mechanic, and tell him, I want square wheels on my car - because im coming to the mechanic, there is an obvious lack of knowledge, which is why i'm there, I expect my mechanic to say, that's not a good idea, we shouldn't put square wheels on the vehicle ...... I expect the same if I come in, give you a guitar, you're a pro, you say it's fine and I ask you to do something I read off the internet that you think wont be fine but do it anyways.. he didn't say either way, he just did what I asked.... I kind of feel like he should have A. recommended a higher action or B. AFTER it buzzed after the setup, recommended a new bridge at $100 instead of the Plek at $250. I feel like I was a mark.

I get the thing home and its noticeably buzzy - just to make sure im not picking up anything because im upset .... I play the exact same song on 2 different guitars for my girlfriend, the d50 which was just plek'd and a d-150ce which has never been setup .. Girlfriend has been a pianist for years and was in touring choir \ plays \ musicals, etc ... she has an ear for music just doesn't play guitar...... I ask if she notices anything different after I A\B the guitars with the same song and immediately, first thing she says is the one (guild d50) is twangy and buzzy and has a harsh pinging noise on the higher frets - which is true, the lower frets and open strings sound just fine .. but at about the .. 7th fret on the D string up and various spots on other strings .. it get's unbearably buzzy and harsh ... noticeably.

I cant help but feel taken advantage of - at this point, what would you guys do - would you go back and expect them to work on it until it didn't buzz, would you accept paying another $100 for a new bridge to raise the action or would you just go to a different shop all together?

Thanks for listening to me vent - this is my first guitar i've been REALLY excited about and my most expensive purchase to date - so the dissatisfaction is amplified.

You hired them to do a job. They did exactly what you asked them to do...


BUT!!!! they did not do a proper inspection of the guitar. Any tech worth a spit will inspect the entire instrument. Its a requirement. They are not expected to do it in front of you but before that action was lowered at the bare minimum the mechanic should have measured and inspected the instrument to see if your request was even possible. Give those guys an F and never look back.

[RP]

Originally Posted by goodry

...My main frustration lies in not having been given better advice, some intervention and then being given the highest price possible option after the initial setup... instead of the lowest cost, most reasonable option.

I empathize with the OP and can definitely see the source of his frustration. I don't think that it's the role of the customer to know the exact questions to ask and how to best express his needs to get the job done correctly. I think it's up to the "professionals" to ask the proper questions to fully understand what the customer wants done. That should be a two-way conversation between customer and guitar tech, and not just like ordering fast food through the mouth of a jack-in-the-box...

[fngrpck]

Maybe the tech should have offered the new saddle before the expensive Plek to fix the problem but he didn't. When you adjust the saddle or replace it your guitar will play better because of the Plek. The rest just chalk it up as a life lesson on how to proceed with future repairs. We all make mistakes so when it comes to anything in life I bone up on all relevant information as knowledge is power and provides clarity.

[Scotso]

I feel for you. I think their advice on a Plek was out of line. But many on here with your first thread told you that your action was too low and get it set up properly before doing any other step. You chose to ignore that advice and listen to the shop. So.......,.you still have a buzzy guitar. 230 bucks later. Good call.

[Silly Moustache]

Originally Posted by goodry

No, I said the reason I brought the guitar in for the setup was that I felt the action was too HIGH.

He said, for a bluegrass player, it's perfect. That is the only advice that I was given. When I said do you think I can get it to this internet spec, he said he could. Not, yes, but there will be buzz. Before he did the work, I said, if the action was too low, is it correctable.... He said for sure, we can just put in a new saddle. When it returned with buzz he said the way to fix this was with a plek job.

So, am I at fault for believing what the tech says?

Goodry, with respect, you've now seen my earlier comment and similar from most orthers who are all trying to advise you.

We all make mistakes with this stuff. It takes time, and errors to learn exactly what is right for us, and our styles.

I have to say something, and I hope you'll accept it in the spirit that I'm saying it. It would seem to me that this is a matter of lack of experience.
The action you asked for is impractical on an acoustic.
That's it.
The lowest possible action is NOT going to give the best sound and wiill aleways be subject to buzzing - think about it - your 1st string is, say .017. How much is that going to move when picked ? I'd suggest about 4x the diameter - .064 - with an action of .059 - what's going to happen? Same with the rest.

My seriuos recommendation. Take your guitar back to where tou got it pleked. Say that you are new to this set-up game and would like it adjusted to 3/32" bass and 2/32" treble with medium strings... please, and you'll pay for the saddle and the work.
You could even say ... sorry. (it might be cheaper).
Take your guitar home when it's done strum a big ol' 1st position G and listen to it sing.

Your fingertips will get used to the sort of action most prefer for playability and god clean sound.

Now, if you'll forgive me its nearly 1 a.m., and I have to feed the cat, and get to bed.

All the best, ol' Andy.

[goodry]

Originally Posted by Scotso

I feel for you. I think their advice on a Plek was out of line. But many on here with your first thread told you that your action was too low and get it set up properly before doing any other step. You chose to ignore that advice and listen to the shop. So.......,.you still have a buzzy guitar. 230 bucks later. Good call.

I did have him set it up first, then when the buzzing continued, plekking was not suggested as an option, it was stated as the solution.

My thought, ok, so it future proofs my Instrument, do something that will not only fix the issue (per the tech) but also improve the guitar, as a whole.

Thank you for your reply.