Pick types and technique

[adaw2821]

Thanks for the input everyone!
Ill look into some of the pick recommendations and if it turns out to work well I might invest in a blue chip down the road. The more I've played with it I realized the sound I don't like is from the pick hitting the strings and that subtle clicking sound. I think when focusing on the guitar tone itself it is indeed better. I'm thinking a different material or speed bevel will help.

Thanks again for all the help!

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by Ditch

I've been playing about a year so I'm no where near an expert. However I do know what I experienced. I started out with thin picks. I had a hard time strumming with anything over .60mm. When I got better and tried thicker picks they sounded dull. I have a Martin DRS1 . It has a sweet tone but I can not get any volume out of it. I tried several different strings and no volume. Then I read on this forum about Charmedlife picks. I figured I'd give one a try. When I corresponded with Scott he recommended a thicker pick. I went with a .75 mm. What an amazing difference in that Martin. It brought out a volume like I never heard. I was so happy with that I ordered a thicker one to see how it would sound. Not a lot more volume but a much warmer tone. I have no vested interest in Charmedlife picks but I will tell you those picks made a world of difference in my playing. I am fairly new to playing so I don't have all the answers but I do know what I hear.

Hey, Jim, bud, how ya been? I just happened to stumble into you here in this thread. Didn't even know you were in here. I was going to drop you an email earlier today.

Have you had a chance to play with the tortoise model yet? I was curious about your comparison between our two materials. Please feel free to post these thoughts publicly if you like, or send me a PM; we have nothing to hide.

What's pleased me so in your case, Jim, as I've stated to you, is how willing you've been, as a new player, to challenge yourself to try thicker picks.

Have a Good Fourth!
scott

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by adaw2821

I've considered looking into a different type of Thicker pick to see if that helps. I just played around a little with my different picks and tried to really pay attention to the differences.

So I noticed when strumming that the thin pick seams to glide over the strings more smoothly and all of the notes kind of blend together in one chord sound. With my thicker pick, it was like the card on a bike tire until I adjusted for it. Had to strum LIGHTER and faster to get that smoothed out. Ore string separation than the thin pick.

Thin I also noticed that I hear the actual noise of the pick hiring the strings. Not the sound coming from the guitar but the actual contact of the pick hitting the strings.

I also feel like i can dig a lot more with the thin pick actually. Not that I can't get more volume from the thicker one but it seems I have to strum as light and smooth as possible to avoid harsh sounds.

Again: technique I need to learn, or maybe a better pick? Or just not for my playing style?

Thanks for the input!

You'd be amazed how much the difference in material can affect pick noise. The more advanced materials will give you virtually no sound of the pick hitting the strings, other than an incredibly vibrant musical tone. That's why there are so many different materials being used in today's picks.

scott memmer

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by adaw2821

Edit: the AB test reveled the the strumming sounded better with a thin pick. But flat picking better with the thick pick. Still probably in my technique so any pointers on that of better picks to try?

Here's the physics of it: A thinner pick will have better TONE. Why? It has lower mass, thus it comes off the string quicker, leaving the string to vibrate sooner and longer.

The downside? Control. A thinner pick, while having better tone, also has more flex, making it harder to play single notes and runs.

A great player can make a thicker pick sound as good as a thin one, and this is what we call technique. But most great players play picks over 1.0 mm, sometimes MUCH more than 1.0.

sm

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by adaw2821

Thanks for the input everyone!
Ill look into some of the pick recommendations and if it turns out to work well I might invest in a blue chip down the road. The more I've played with it I realized the sound I don't like is from the pick hitting the strings and that subtle clicking sound. I think when focusing on the guitar tone itself it is indeed better. I'm thinking a different material or speed bevel will help.

Thanks again for all the help!

The Wegen line might be something to look at. They've got some nice stuff for less than, say, $5.00 per pick. They're also readily available from folks like Strings & Beyond and many other online sellers.

Instead of jumping into a $30-40 pick, this could be a nice intermediate step for you. It's a popular brand, and offers a good performance vs price investment.

sm

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by nedray

You're own preference should rule your choice, but you'll find most players use a heavier pick on acoustic guitar. It fills up the tone and also gives you a surer touch once you get used to it. If you get too much string separation, try angling the pick and/or strumming fewer strings. Even strumming is more interesting if you try to focus on two or three chordal tones and vary your attack a little. I like Dunlop Delrin 1.5 mm, but also use Blue Chip, Wegen, Dunlop Prime Tone and others. If you do a search, you'll find about 100 threads on picks, so you should be able to get a lot of input. Then just try to get something to sound good.

Yes, good suggestions. In the Dunlop line, try the Primetones, Ultex and Tortex -- all terrific values in a more rigid pick. There's a reason Dunlop is king -- something for everyone.

sm

[6Strngs5Fingers]

Wow, I'm getting an education.

I knew there were thousands of kinds of guitars, but now it looks like there's even more kinds of picks.

Too many choices!

[Wolfram]

Originally Posted by Wade Hampton

Adaw, from what I'e seen, heard and experienced, at least half of the tone you get from a guitar is from the player, not the material or thickness of the pick. So much of it comes down to right hand technique.

Wade is absolutely right with this!

However, the choice of pick can influence the range of tone accessible by the player.

I'll add that when I was developing the Wolfram Precision : Strike pick it quickly became apparent - at least for a thick, rigid pick - that the quality of the surface was at least, if not more important than the thickness or type of material in determining the tone palette available.

In particular, metal picks have a reputation for having a harsh, raspy sound - this has absolutely nothing to do with the material, and everything to do with the fact that the metal is usually left un- or roughly-finished.

This is why we polish the edge and picking tip of every one of our Wolfram picks by hand with diamond paste, to achieve a perfectly smooth, low-friction finish, and we shape the edge to a precision radius with a diamond grinding wheel.



All in the pursuit of tone perfection!

Cheers,
David

Originally Posted by Charmed Life Guitar Picks

Here's the physics of it: A thinner pick will have better TONE. Why? It has lower mass, thus it comes off the string quicker, leaving the string to vibrate sooner and longer.

I couldn't disagree more if you said the earth was flat.

IMO thin picks result in lousy tone 100% of the time - clanky, thin, nasal - bad in nearly every way to my ears.

I think you're incorrect on the physics too. A thin pick bends and stays on the string longer. More of the energy is going into bending the pick, where a thicker pick gets more of the energy into moving the string. It displaces the string more directly lets it snap loose more quickly.

[docwatsonfan]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

I couldn't disagree more if you said the earth was flat.

IMO thin picks result in lousy tone 100% of the time - clanky, thin, nasal - bad in nearly every way to my ears.

I think you're incorrect on the physics too. A thin pick bends and stays on the string longer. More of the energy is going into bending the pick, where a thicker pick gets more of the energy into moving the string. It displaces the string more directly lets it snap loose more quickly.

[HHP]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

I couldn't disagree more if you said the earth was flat.

IMO thin picks result in lousy tone 100% of the time - clanky, thin, nasal - bad in nearly every way to my ears.

I think you're incorrect on the physics too. A thin pick bends and stays on the string longer. More of the energy is going into bending the pick, where a thicker pick gets more of the energy into moving the string. It displaces the string more directly lets it snap loose more quickly.

Generally agree but do not think 100% of thin picks are lousy. They are definitely different. I will often use as low as a .73 when playing Irish music as it gives a tone that is somewhat expected by the other musicians. Below that, can't get enough control to make thinner even useable.

[Marshall]

Picks are very personal. I've used #346 rounded triangles forever. So nothing else will do. (Plus you get 3 picks in one). And nothing beats celluloid for clarity.

In terms of volume; I did my own unscientific survey and thin are louder. Thick softer. Less pick noise with thick. But less volume too.

Me; I settle for #346 medium gauge (.71) celluloid. Nothing else works as good. Including Bluechip. I bought one of those. I liked it. Maybe as much as celluloid. I certainly could get used to it. Except the price is way too over-the-top for me. I can buy 50 celluloids for the cost of one Bluechip. I lose too many picks for that. So, I sold my bluechip to someone on AGF for half price.

[handers]

+1. I only ever use the 1mm Dunlop with dragon image. Thinner picks ego thinner than 0.7mm deflect too easily and the ratio of pick noise to string tone is way too high. There's a reason why flatpickers and Mando players use 1-3mm picks with essentially zero deflection.

Hans

[adaw2821]

Originally Posted by Todd Yates

I couldn't disagree more if you said the earth was flat.

IMO thin picks result in lousy tone 100% of the time - clanky, thin, nasal - bad in nearly every way to my ears.

I think you're incorrect on the physics too. A thin pick bends and stays on the string longer. More of the energy is going into bending the pick, where a thicker pick gets more of the energy into moving the string. It displaces the string more directly lets it snap loose more quickly.

See this is where you guys lose me. I've been playing for quite a while and at leat think I have a pretty good ear for tone. And I believe I and many others that listen to me play have never described my tone as thin.. I'm not saying it couldn't be improved some with a thicker pick and proper technique but my thin pick seems to do adequately tone wise.

Also when I was learning, I played with guys who didn't use a pick for strumming. I have developed good technique with a thin pick and IMO it sounds invisible when strumming. The thick picks I used all had too much of a harsh noise. I've tried compensating by a lighter touch and more angle but to no avail. If the pick hits the strings, no matter how light, I hear it.

It may very well be that a thick pick has better tone but I'm distracted by the noise of the pick hitting the strings so I think I'm going to look into a better pick from a different material.

Blue Chip and $30-40 picks are out of my budget so thanks for the suggestions

[Charmed Life Picks]

Originally Posted by adaw2821

See this is where you guys lose me. I've been playing for quite a while and at leat think I have a pretty good ear for tone. And I believe I and many others that listen to me play have never described my tone as thin.. I'm not saying it couldn't be improved some with a thicker pick and proper technique but my thin pick seems to do adequately tone wise.

Also when I was learning, I played with guys who didn't use a pick for strumming. I have developed good technique with a thin pick and IMO it sounds invisible when strumming. The thick picks I used all had too much of a harsh noise. I've tried compensating by a lighter touch and more angle but to no avail. If the pick hits the strings, no matter how light, I hear it.

It may very well be that a thick pick has better tone but I'm distracted by the noise of the pick hitting the strings so I think I'm going to look into a better pick from a different material.

Blue Chip and $30-40 picks are out of my budget so thanks for the suggestions

I believe I mentioned earlier in this thread -- but I'll repeat it -- to check out Wegen Picks:

http://www.wegenpicks.com/

Specifically, try their Bluegrass models, which I think are about $15.00 for four picks. You'll find a thicker pick without that pick noise issue. Also check out Dunlops, specifically the Ultex and the Primetone Series. Excellent performance, and even less expensive than the Wegens.

Please do keep us posted.

scott