NGD...and my open apology to Taylor

[Wade Hampton]

After I mentioned that I refrained from commenting on Taylor's new V bracing system until I'd had a chance to play some of those guitars for myself, BT55 replied:

Originally Posted by BT55

Regretfully you do not represent the majority of those leaving V Brace comments.
At a Road Show I demo’d V-Braced Taylor’s shortly after their rollout. The comments on this forum from people that they hadn’t played them were over the top negative.

Yeah, and I have real trouble understanding that, frankly. Why work yourself up into a state of indignation until you've had a chance to appraise and play the guitars for yourself? What on earth does that accomplish?

Taylor chose to go with a new bracing system on some instruments and spent some money to promote it: how can that be threatening or offensive to ANYONE?!? Even if the new design had turned out to be a complete flop, like the Gibson Mark Series acoustic guitars back in the 1970's, how does that hurt any of us?

It's not our money that Taylor spent to develop and market these new models. It's not as though Bob Taylor sent out a group email stating that he's gotten into all of our bank accounts and garnisheed $100 apiece from each of us to pay for the Grand Pacific models' development costs....none of us has been injured in any way, real or imagined, by Taylor coming out with these guitars.

Anyway, Shades of Blue has not only realized that they're good guitars, he's put his money where his mouth is and bought one. So kudos to you for that, Blue, as well as for publicly acknowledging that it was wrong of him to tear into Taylor without trying the guitars first.

So more power to you, Blue. I'm glad you got a guitar you like.


Wade Hampton Miller

[The Growler]

Congratulations! Very nice.

[Larry Mal]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

So I have some first impressions after 2 hours this evening.

First, it just sounds lovely. I didn’t have time to change the Elixirs, but I hear that typical Elixir sound I hate. I can’t make a true assessment until I get different strings on.

Secondly, the 717 is sooooo balanced and sounds like an OM-28 with more body which is exactly what I’ve been looking for. The high E and B strings are so FAT sounding. It’s quite unbelievable how good of a lead guitar this is. It takes no effort at all to get volume out of the high strings.

Third, this guitar sounds so woody yet clear at the same time. It’s not really brilliant like a GA, but it’s just fat and woody. If you can imagine a Martin Dread with a mid scooped EQ with strong thin highs and a low thumpy bass, the Grand Pacific is just the opposite with the mids out front, but in a good way. I can hear myself when I play with my daughter, and it sounds great in a mix. I commend Andy for that.

Only negative so far is I don’t know how I feel about the low end yet. It’s full, but definitely not a boomer. It makes you subconsciously think that there is no low end, but that’s not the case at all. The low E is a little wimpy, and sits behind the other strings, but almost in a good way. If a Martin goes THOMP, and a Gibson goes THUMP, the 717 goes THUUUUM...with no P.

After I play my D-18 and J-45 and grab the 717, the first thing I miss is the low end. Once my ear gets adjusted, I realize how much more enjoyable the high strings are. Very fat and everything is so balanced. I enjoy that.

That's a very good review, and hopefully you will continue to see that reduced low end presence as an advantage.

I kind of feel like I know what you mean when you say that, I have never played a Taylor Grand Pacific, but I do have a Gibson J-35, and while that's hardly the same thing my J-35 does have a very different low end than my other Gibsons do.

It's there, it's just further back in the mix, and it might seem like that is a disadvantage up until I put a microphone in front of it. All of a sudden, I get this very up front and present crystal clear high end, with great note separation and presence.

At first I was a little leery of it, because your ears wants to hear this big, lush sound all the time. But your microphones don't, and when you slot a guitar into a mix it's always better if your guitar just fits in without you having to EQ it and such.

Not to babble on about my stupid Gibson or anything, but hopefully you get similar feelings about the sound of your new Taylor as time passes, and you continue to learn to love what it has to offer.

I have no doubt that you will... Taylor makes great guitars and that's that. They didn't drop the ball on these, I have no doubt.

[Shades of Blue]

Ok so I have a sound sample comparing the D-18 and the 717. I’ll let you guys be the judge, but there is no contest to me in this example. I’ll reveal my thoughts more tomorrow.

One ironic thing is that the “silent satin” finish on the Taylor is super noisy and you can hear my arm sweeps lol. That’s kind of funny!

D-18 first, 717 starts at 1:38

https://www.dropbox.com/s/jff00xstzz...20717.m4a?dl=0

[Dru Edwards]

Congrats on the 717! Glad to hear that you were able to play some and use first hand experience to form an opinion on the V class bracing.

[bluetweed]

whats your take on the neck profile?

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by bluetweed

whats your take on the neck profile?

It’s chunkier than the Reimagined Martin necks, but in a good way. I honestly don’t feel the V that Taylor describes. Must be extremely subtle. All I know is it is comfortable. The rolled edges on the fretboard are really nice though.

[Ozark]

Congrats on your new Taylor. Nice playing on your sound clip for comparison. The Taylor does have a beautifully balanced sound throughout but to my ear the D-18 is just lovely with its powerful low end and sweet highs.

When played alone the 717 sounds fantastic but next to the D-18, well it is still the King.

[mmarchi]

Very happy 717 owner here. I would like to suggest that you try a set of Martin Retro strings when you have a chance to really hear the woodiness come out. The medium set works really well with this guitar and after some experimentation with a few different string brands (Elixir, Martin, JPearse) that is where I ended up. I tried the LG set for easier playability but the lighter ADG strings impacted the sound negatively in my opinion. I would call this guitar just really well balanced. Not too bright, not too deep/bassy. Yes, I would love if it were balanced like this and louder but I've learned to appreciate it for what it is.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by Ozark

When played alone the 717 sounds fantastic but next to the D-18, well it is still the King.

This is exactly how I feel this morning. Both the Martin and Gibson have a stronger, more out front bass. The Taylor is just as deep, but it sits back and doesn't interfere. The great thing is that Taylor finally got their highs right IMO! They are fat and juicy, and very out front without being thin and pristine. The 717 is also the best feeling guitar I've ever played. Zero discomfort. You can just hug the guitar and get close without feeling any shoulder pain. I'd say the sound is exactly what I was hoping for, which is 000/OM on steroids without being dread like.

Having said that, if I rank them all, my D-18 is still out in front, followed by the Gibson, and lastly the Taylor. The 717 is loads of fun and does sound wonderful, but I think that the frequency flip you get of basically turning the smiley face EQ upside down takes your ears some getting used to. Grabbing the 717 after playing the D-18 makes you wonder where all the bass went. I don't know if that is going to really work for me long term.

I also don't find the "silent satin" finish very silent. Maybe not as noisy as some matte finishes, but I can definitely hear every arm brush on this thing. Maybe I should train myself to no move my arm as much.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

This is exactly how I feel this morning. Both the Martin and Gibson have a stronger, more out front bass. The Taylor is just as deep, but it sits back and doesn't interfere. The great thing is that Taylor finally got their highs right IMO! They are fat and juicy, and very out front without being thin and pristine. The 717 is also the best feeling guitar I've ever played. Zero discomfort. You can just hug the guitar and get close without feeling any shoulder pain. I'd say the sound is exactly what I was hoping for, which is 000/OM on steroids without being dread like.



Having said that, if I rank them all, my D-18 is still out in front, followed by the Gibson, and lastly the Taylor. The 717 is loads of fun and does sound wonderful, but I think that the frequency flip you get of basically turning the smiley face EQ upside down takes your ears some getting used to. Grabbing the 717 after playing the D-18 makes you wonder where all the bass went. I don't know if that is going to really work for me long term.



I also don't find the "silent satin" finish very silent. Maybe not as noisy as some matte finishes, but I can definitely hear every arm brush on this thing. Maybe I should train myself to no move my arm as much.

This is nearly identical to my reaction when playing the new 717 back to back with a Martin dread in the same setting.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

This is nearly identical to my reaction when playing the new 717 back to back with a Martin dread in the same setting.

This is what I will be weighing out over the weekend. My gut/mind says to keep it, but my wallet is screaming to return it. I just flat out think that my other two guitars sound better. The 717 sounds great, but it is not like anything I've ever experienced from a guitar and I am trying to figure out how to use it. It sounds good in DADGAD and gives me the high end fatness I've been craving, but the D-18 flat out smokes it on all accounts accept the high E and B strings.

Having said all that, let's take a step back for a moment. I literally hate Elixirs with every ounce of my being. I hate the sound, slipperiness, and stiffness of them. That to me makes the Taylor sound and feel foreign to me.

I hate to burn a set of Santa Cruz strings, but I'm afraid it may be the only thing that keeps this guitar in my possession for more than another week. This is a guitar that I can't speak highly enough of....unless of course you are comparing it to a Martin Dread or J-45.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

This is what I will be weighing out over the weekend. My gut/mind says to keep it, but my wallet is screaming to return it. I just flat out think that my other two guitars sound better. The 717 sounds great, but it is not like anything I've ever experienced from a guitar and I am trying to figure out how to use it. It sounds good in DADGAD and gives me the high end fatness I've been craving, but the D-18 flat out smokes it on all accounts accept the high E and B strings.

Having said all that, let's take a step back for a moment. I literally hate Elixirs with every ounce of my being. I hate the sound, slipperiness, and stiffness of them. That to me makes the Taylor sound and feel foreign to me.

I hate to burn a set of Santa Cruz strings, but I'm afraid it may be the only thing that keeps this guitar in my possession for more than another week. This is a guitar that I can't speak highly enough of....unless of course you are comparing it to a Martin Dread or J-45.

It's not a rare guitar. There are (and will be) many of this model available in the future. If I were in a situation where my most expensive guitar was the worst sounding, I would return it. You can always play them locally until you find one that grabs you. Your experience might be as much a result of Internet buying as anything else. I simply cannot stomach Internet buys any more. The shipping and returning is a hassle. It takes 10 seconds to pickup a guitar in a shop, strum and put it down and say "that's not for me". That process takes a week, waiting at home to sign for a delivery, a trip to UPS to return, and $100 when buying on the Internet.

[Shades of Blue]

Originally Posted by martingitdave

It's not a rare guitar. There are (and will be) many of this model available in the future. If I were in a situation where my most expensive guitar was the worst sounding, I would return it. You can always play them locally until you find one that grabs you. Your experience might be as much a result of Internet buying as anything else. I simply cannot stomach Internet buys any more. The shipping and returning is a hassle. It takes 10 seconds to pickup a guitar in a shop, strum and put it down and say "that's not for me". That process takes a week, a trip to UPS, and $100 when buying on the Internet.

I do want to reiterate that I do like the guitar a lot. But, like you say, I don't think it is any better sonically than my other guitars. I just want to take some more time with it and see what I grab this weekend the most. I tend to play the guitar that is the most comfortable at home, so the Taylor wins that contest by a country mile.

OH! One thing I forgot to mention is that the Taylor sounds fantastic in a mix. I can actually hear myself when playing with songs on my Bose speaker. That was actually pretty cool to hear. So yea, I just need more time because there isn't anything that I don't really like, it's just weighing cost vs what I currently have.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by Shades of Blue

I do want to reiterate that I do like the guitar a lot. But, like you say, I don't think it is any better sonically than my other guitars. I just want to take some more time with it and see what I grab this weekend the most. I tend to play the guitar that is the most comfortable at home, so the Taylor wins that contest by a country mile.



OH! One thing I forgot to mention is that the Taylor sounds fantastic in a mix. I can actually hear myself when playing with songs on my Bose speaker. That was actually pretty cool to hear. So yea, I just need more time because there isn't anything that I don't really like, it's just weighing cost vs what I currently have.

Understood. There is a lot to like about these new models. I’ve taken many trips to play them because I’d love for one to fit my ears. They fit my eyes and hands so well, and I love Taylor’s ES2 system. Alas, a traditional dreadnought fits my ears.