How many of you are playing in pain ?

[agfsteve]

Originally Posted by Mojo21

I have used those arm pads and they do work well to take the pressure of the flexor muscles and perhaps more importantly the ulnar nerve.

One thing I did was to hit the gymnasium under the guidance of a physio. He essentially had me strengthen my back, neck, shoulders and arms. It was surprisingly easy to gain this strength especially the forearms which grew in size and strength within a few months.

I had got to the stage where I had MRI scans (including brain scan) and nerve conduction studies, in fact I had one set of nerve studies where I literally simulated my playing position. Nothing was found on those tests.

My issue was caused by anxiety which causes horrendous tension. I could barely pick up a phone at one point. When I hit the gym I was frightened to death but my physio insisted that I be brave and do it. It’s the best thing I ever did.

This may not apply to anyone here but there is now overwhelming evidence that chronic pain is now barely related to any structural damage, but rather it is essentially a sensitization of the pain/nervous system and it is treated with the mind and not by surgery.

I don't really understand what you're saying. Are you saying that your physical exercising cured or helped with your anxiety, or that your physical exercise helped with easing the physical pain that resulted from the teniosn that was caused by the anxiety?

Also, when you say anxiety, are you talking about performance (playing guitar) anxiety, or some other form of anxiety?

Thanks!

Hi Hopefully I can clarify.

I suffer badly from anxiety but not performance anxiety. Anxiety can mimic well over 100 physical symptoms (it’s well evidenced and documented) but I wasn’t aware when my pain started that this was in fact anxiety related.

My guitar related troubles started with a strange weak feeling in my right hand middle finger and I ignored it until I started getting elbow pain in my right arm. This pain rapidly spread to my whole arm and then shoulders. And then it spread to my left arm and I was in a mess. All this time I never thought it was anxiety and hence spending a fortune on tests and numerous professionals from physios to orthopedic consultants. I literally spent a fortune.

Following an MRI scan of my brain I went for the results only to be told that nothing could be found. Then, rather bizarrely, the consultant said “ I think you’re body is fine but your mind is knackered”. I ignored this and then went to another physio who after about 6 sessions told me he couldn’t find anything wrong and that ethically he could no longer treat me.

I then went into incredible despair because here I was in tremendous pain in both arms, shoulders, neck, fingers etc with no explanation. Things got even worse when a routine trip to the dentist left me with excruciating toothache that ultimately saw me decline to a very dark place. It was during this time that I researched (and was told my mental health experts), that chronic anxiety often manifests in horrendous symptoms and moreover that it doesn’t take much stress to trigger it.

I went to yet another physio and this is perhaps where it’s confusing. I demanded that he listened to me and I was up front about my anxiety and the possibility that my pain was mind related. He totally agreed but noted that I had, through fear, allowed my muscles to go really weak and this is how I came to fight back by hitting the gym.

Now, the problem is that anxiety causes tension of the highest order but you don’t actually realize it yourself because, well, it’s just how you live your life. The tension ultimately causes pain.

The turning point came when I realized that I was frightened of my pain and so I bloody well challenged it by starting to play again, continued in the gym and essentially confronted, or walked towards the pain. I’m now pain free and yet a few years ago I was in a total mess.

So in essence even though the physical things I did worked the, overriding change was brought about by changing my mind: instead of believing I couldn’t get better I decided I could and I would.

My anxiety is still with me but my mental relationship with it is different. My tooth pain is virtually gone after over two years of pure hell. Interestingly, my therapist has alluded to the fact that anxiety often manifests as a form of self sabotage: jaw pain/singing and hands/guitar.

[RJVB]

Yes, it is (annoyingly) fascinating how much damage the brain can inflict on the body (real or imagined as in serious hypochondriacs). Even something simple as motion sickness (esp. the variant you can get in virtual reality situations and from certain video games) is largely mental in origin.

Fortunately for me my own anxiety issues only ever gave me IBS-like symptoms but it's good to know there's now an accepted relationship between it and chronic pain.

And reading your story I cannot help but think of Frank Herbert's Litany against Fear, and how well worded that bit of fiction really is.

[Kh1967]

I am. Some shoulder pain on occasion but, after a fall this past winter on the ice, my wrist on my fretting hand and two fingers shoot with pain and then go numb.

I am muddling for the time being but, probably no improvement is to be had. Not yet time to give up guitar, but probably less time will be devoted to it.

[printer2]

I have gone through pain workshops that outlined physical and psychological methods to learn how to cope. Basically my central nervous system had been screwed up where temperature and light touch nerve fibers go up the pain pathways up the spinal cord rather that their normal route. Or it is the feedback mechanism in the spine that modulates the pain signals that is messed up. The mind does play a part in it, when you are happy the pain is lessened in normal people. When you are stressed the pain seems more, painful. In my case there is only so much the brain can do. Two common examples given for the condition are that a gentle breeze on the skin is painful also putting on a light shirt. Repetitive sensory inputs like walking with change in your pocket and it rubbing on your leg sensitizes the area. And once it starts it can cascade to other parts of the body till everywhere hurts. Almost need a fuzzy ZZ Top guitar.

[Paraclete]

Isn’t learning to play through pain part of being a musician? That was something I had to learn when I was a student and decided that playing softball was a good idea. Sprained, jammed, and possibly fractured my left thumb in one really bad at-bat two days before three different orchestra concerts and a recital. Sigh. Fast forward thirty years, and it’s arthritis and tennis elbow and random injuries and who knows what else. But I swear it’s all worth it.

[printer2]

The problem is when the pain is greater than the reward.

[Mark Stone]

66 yoa and no pain at all, and still using mediums. I'm also very tall so it's easier to work with seated positions and like that. Also, my humble 110e has a 5/16 so the barre chords are a breeze.

[Mark Stone]

Originally Posted by Paraclete

Isn’t learning to play through pain part of being a musician?

To a reasonable extent. However, a guitar that is the incorrect size, medium strings in concert with high action, incorrect playing position etc. can cause unnecessary pain. Additionally, aging sometimes adds pain. So, yes, I agree with you, but not all the pain is (or, rather, should be) part of learning

That was something I had to learn when I was a student and decided that playing softball was a good idea. Sprained, jammed, and possibly fractured my left thumb in one really bad at-bat two days before three different orchestra concerts and a recital. Sigh. Fast forward thirty years, and it’s arthritis and tennis elbow and random injuries and who knows what else. But I swear it’s all worth it.

[archerscreek]

I still have some elbow pain, inside part, picking arm. It's gone down significanty, however, with stretching and exercise. And of course every now and then I feel some pain in my wallet.

[Paraclete]

Originally Posted by Mark Stone

To a reasonable extent. However, a guitar that is the incorrect size, medium strings in concert with high action, incorrect playing position etc. can cause unnecessary pain. Additionally, aging sometimes adds pain. So, yes, I agree with you, but not all the pain is (or, rather, should be) part of learning

Naturally, of course. Sometimes it means downsizing or even switching to a different instrument. I know some who have traded in their guitars for a good ukulele. And don’t do things that cause serious damage! (Not all pain is equal). I think the worst pain is the slow loss of ability.

[Mark Stone]

Originally Posted by Paraclete

. . . . . I think the worst pain is the slow loss of ability.

That is absolutely true.

[Gabby84]

Originally Posted by Yrksman

I’ve had Psoriatic Arthritis for 20 years. Never missed a gig or taken a day off when working. It’s been tough.

I have psoriatic arthritis too, started when I was 4 y/o. Diagnosed when I was 14.

Played viola with some finger pain as a kid.

Did have shoulder discomfort, switched from a dreadnaught to concert size. Guild m20.

Some chords I can’t make due to the disfiguration of my pinky finger on my left hand (right handed guitar player).

However, I notice that my arthritis is less painful and I’m gaining flexibility in my fingers as a result of returning to playing a stronger instrument. It’s helped both hands.

[Gabby84]

Originally Posted by RJVB

Interesting. I always thought that a surplus of strength could only be beneficial as long as it didn't come at the expense of flexibility (and thus fine motor control).



Fun fact: I've been playing violin since about 10yo, briefly considered going the conservatory route (but was dissuaded by my then teacher). I kept taking lessons and played in a student orchestra all through my early university years while having an intensive fling with martial arts for a couple of years. My interest in a (semi-pro) music career really took off again after discovering and buying a baroque violin, while I was convalescing from having almost destroyed my knees (and probably having laid the foundations for my current back issue). So there are kinds of pain which you can actually forget through playing

You must post some of your baroque violin music!

[DanleyJ]

I have arthritis in my thumb joints. Mostly in my right hand. It affects my fingerstyle playing quite a bit. I can pick my my square neck dobro if the pain gets to me too much on some days. Trouble is, playing the dobro causes me neck pain that I can't seem to overcome from holding my head in one place watching my hands while playing. Can't seem to win for losing! It sucks getting older but considering the alternative, I can live with it.