The 'desperately hoping it doesn't sound like a cardboard box' build thread - Page 15

JonWint · #**211** 11-17-2016, 05:03 PM

Lots of shellac info available:
https://www.shellac.net/
http://www.shellacshack.com/
lmii.com
stewmac.com
all of above ship to international customers
youtube demos

BTW, shellac is edible so you can drink the mixture too, not just the leftover alcohol. Just kidding, I'm a beer drinker.

emmsone · #**212** 12-02-2016, 01:45 PM

So I guess its about time for another update.
I sanded the guitar up and initially we sprayed it in the high gloss. The high gloss had instructions from the lacquer company to spray, wait 90 minutes, spray, wait 90 minutes, spray, wait 72 hours before sanding and buffing can be done.
We sprayed friday evening last week. The spray guy was back in the workshop on saturday morning and he checked on the guitar when he went in. Possibly due to the temperature which dropped dramatically overnight on friday, possibly some other reasons but the lacquer didn't seem to come out right but even worse was the buckled sides really came back to haunt me and the non-flatness really showed and it looked for want of a better word, diabolical.
At that point it was a straight 50/50 decision to either use it as a tennis bat then woodchipper it, or sand all the finish off and attempt it again.
Somehow I was convinced to sand all the lacquer off, that was at least 10-12 hours of sanding. The only advantage of this was that this process basically ended up with the lacquer filling the pores.

After that, we decided that a) the high gloss wasn't really the best option and b) to choose between full matt or semi-gloss.
I decided to go with the semi gloss and it was probably the right option. The finish looks pretty decent now. I still have to wait 48 hours until its completely cured, so I can't/shouldn't start chopping the lacquer around the bridge area yet.

I only took pictures after the first layer of gloss, heres the front view with gloss on

Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

Heres the back view with gloss on

Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

Heres a view with almost all the high gloss lacquer sanded off

Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

I only took a picture of the back while in the spray room, i'll try and take more over the weekend with decent light

Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

Truckjohn · #**213** 12-02-2016, 06:41 PM

There's a lot of good info on the web for acoustic guitar finishing schedules.

The typical goal is to lay down about 0.015"/0.4mm. The leveling and polishing process will leave you with about 0.003"/0.09mm final finish thickness. If you start earlier than this - you risk not having enough finish to properly level - leaving ugly unlevelled spots or sanding through in multiple places.

The specific schedule on how to get there depends on your products.

The way you know how thick... Take a flat scrap of wood and tape it over the soundhole mask. Mic it before and after finishing and you will know your finish thickness.

Thanks.

emmsone · #**214** 12-09-2016, 01:25 PM

Update. Its Finished!!
So in the last few days, I glued the bridge on, oiled the fretboard and bridge, levelled the frets, cut the nut and saddle, did a full setup, re-polished the frets and strung it up.

The bridge gluing wasn't as tricky as expected, mostly because the process or removing the lacquer was easier. This was because it turns out the lacquer is crazy thin, even though we sprayed 6 layers of lacquer, it didn't take long to remove it and have bare wood to glue the bridge to.

So to the whole point of the thread. Does it sound like a cardboard box?

No!!!!!!

It sounds pretty good, its loud, much louder then my old dreadnaught, has an excellent sustain length, its very very warm if you play with bare fingers and pretty bright when played with a pick or nails. But in both cases, it seems quite balanced. (I say seems, because theres only so much I can tell playing along to myself)
Right now I've only played the guitar about 3 hours, I'm hoping these 2 extremes will blend together a bit for optimum results.

There is one other interesting feature of the sound. To me, while the guitar is sustaining, the notes ring and if it was going through an amp, I would be complaining about feedback. The overtones are almost exactly the frequencies you associate with feedback.

I am planning to borrow a interface over the weekend which will allow me to record the guitar.

Gluing the bridge on

Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

gluing the bridge on

Untitled by David Emm, on Flickr

front of the guitar

_DSC4626 edit by David Emm, on Flickr

back of the guitar

_DSC4625 edit by David Emm, on Flickr

side of the guitar

_DSC4629 edit by David Emm, on Flickr

end graft

_DSC4635 edit by David Emm, on Flickr

cutaway detail

_DSC4627 edit by David Emm, on Flickr

headstock front

_DSC4631 edit by David Emm, on Flickr

back of the headstock

_DSC4632 edit by David Emm, on Flickr

Frogstar · #**215** 12-09-2016, 02:02 PM

Well done!
I've been following this one just because I can see myself in the same boat someday

SiGraybeard · #**216** 12-09-2016, 02:41 PM

Congratulations!

Like FrogStar, I've been following this for some time and read every post because I'm thinking of building my first acoustic as well. I really like your overall design; the hand cutaway and basic shape. I think I'll avoid the bloodwood hassles, but yours really came out gorgeous.

SiG

cobalt60 · #**217** 12-09-2016, 02:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emmsone

Update. Its Finished!!
There is one other interesting feature of the sound. To me, while the guitar is sustaining, the notes ring and if it was going through an amp, I would be complaining about feedback. The overtones are almost exactly the frequencies you associate with feedback.

Definitely make a recording with an external mic - that feedback-like sound may be buzz, possibly against the first fret. If so, I'd bet folks here could recognize it...

mhainz · #**218** 12-09-2016, 05:57 PM

That looks great. Well done. I've built a couple of electrics but doubt I'd ever have the skill or courage to try an acoustic.

Quickstep192 · #**219** 12-09-2016, 07:54 PM

Congrats and well done! Looks great! I will mist following this thread though...

tahoeguitar · #**220** 12-10-2016, 08:18 AM

Congrats... looks pretty good despite all the troubles. Are you addicted yet? When do you start your next?

I've noticed that the tone of my instruments will change a lot over the first day or so after stringing up. Almost always for the better, and then they gradually get even better with time but the changes are more subtle than the first day or two.

emmsone · #**221** 12-10-2016, 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Frogstar

Well done!
I've been following this one just because I can see myself in the same boat someday

Thanks Frogstar! i hope there are some takeaways for you, if you have any questions just ask

Quote:

Originally Posted by SiGraybeard

Congratulations!

Like FrogStar, I've been following this for some time and read every post because I'm thinking of building my first acoustic as well. I really like your overall design; the hand cutaway and basic shape. I think I'll avoid the bloodwood hassles, but yours really came out gorgeous.
SiG

Thanks Si! reading every post is a lot of effort! Glad you like it. The cutaway is a pretty simple, but effective design but really wasn't the easiest shape to create. On a 12 fret guitar its almost worth it, but I really don't think i've actually gained much "playability" with it, its still really awkward to play up there due to the thickness of the guitar body

Quote:

Originally Posted by cobalt60

Definitely make a recording with an external mic - that feedback-like sound may be buzz, possibly against the first fret. If so, I'd bet folks here could recognize it...

Yep, i'm planning to record either tomorrow or monday. I'm pretty sure it isn't buzz, it only appears towards the end of the sound decay, hopefully it will come across on any recordings and someone can "diagnose" it

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhainz

That looks great. Well done. I've built a couple of electrics but doubt I'd ever have the skill or courage to try an acoustic.

Thanks! Most of the building isn't "harder" but it is a more complicated process with more individual process skills required and most importantly it takes way way longer then a solidbody build. Maybe try a kit build?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quickstep192

Congrats and well done! Looks great! I will mist following this thread though...

Thanks Quickstep! There is a high chance that at some point in the future there will be another build thread of mine to keep you occupied....

Quote:

Originally Posted by tahoeguitar

Congrats... looks pretty good despite all the troubles. Are you addicted yet? When do you start your next?

I've noticed that the tone of my instruments will change a lot over the first day or so after stringing up. Almost always for the better, and then they gradually get even better with time but the changes are more subtle than the first day or two.

Thanks Larry! I spotted that, it has definitely changed but now noticing the changes is already less obvious. Its also possible that putting the same set of strings on and off 3 times doesn't help totally.
I would say its definitely a more "compact" sound then it was when I originally strung it up. Its probably a bit more mid-focussed now but to be fair I only really spotted that it has quite a mid-focussed today when a friend of mine played it and couldn't put it down.
I'm not sure i'm addicted yet, but i'm probably not far off!! A next build? well that depends on 2 things. a) if I can sell this one (or acquire some money) to actually pay back the workshop where I built this for the rest of the hours it took. and 2) if I can find a way to afford more materials and a few more tools to build another.

SnowManSnow · #**222** 12-12-2016, 09:48 AM

Congrats!

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Truckjohn · #**223** 12-12-2016, 10:34 AM

Beautiful!

emmsone · #**224** 12-13-2016, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SnowManSnow

Congrats!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Truckjohn

Beautiful!

Thanks very much guys!

emmsone · #**225** 12-13-2016, 11:26 AM

I finally got round to recording the guitar this afternoon. A few friends played it over the weekend, its really interesting just how different it sounds from sitting behind it and sitting in front of it.
The guitar has probably had around 8 hours of playing time right now and its still changing, but more subtly now. Its not as bright as it started out, although this could be due to the fact these strings have been on and off about 4 times so far already, I should have put new strings on for the recording, but I don't have any spares lying around. The "feedback" like overtone in the sustain is still there but it doesn't stand out so much anymore, once again this could be a string thing.

As the guitar is probably my 3rd instrument behind drums and sax, take my playing with a pinch of salt, it should be good enough to show the tone of the guitar. What I did notice was that 2 friends who played it over the weekend and have totally different playing styles (plus my own) and it's coped with it all pretty well, a finger picker, a 99% electric lead guitar guy and my own weird picked/strummed/style. To my ears it sounded best with the finger picking, but that could be just that i was excited to hear it played by a good guitarist for the first time.

Overall i'm pretty sure it doesn't sound like a cardboard box, but if anyone has come across a cardboard box that has a tone as warm as this and sustains this long I want to know!

David