#1
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Why is IR not suitable for live performance?
I've seen this said a lot and, as a beginner, I don't understand it.
It seems to me the main flaws that get highlighted are that the sound gets lost in any sort of mix and problems with EQ, but as I understand it, EQ can be built into any IR (or EQ can be applied before or after) and often complaints get resolved by using the IR as a blend with your dry signal. Are there other problems I'm missing? Or have I misunderstood how IR works and whether it can or cannot fix the commonly stated flaws I mentioned above? |
#2
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For solo/duo work the guitar tends to fill out a lot of the overall sound, usually chordal bass end and rhythmic top end. Ideally this leaves a gap for vocals and other melodic elements. Among other things IRs help to tame the typical piezo sound that clutters up that high-mid area resulting in a "close-up" transparency which helps create space for others.
In a bigger band the guitar usually fulfils a different role, smaller in scale, percussive and rhythmic and that raw(er) piezo sound is more useful. In this case a poorly executed or inappropriately processed IR'd signal can lose some of the characteristics that make it useful "from a distance". The right IR (possibly plural for different scenarios) well processed can usually accentuate the best while avoiding the worst.
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#3
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#4
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These are not hard and fast rules and are situation dependent.
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Give a man a fishing rod... and he's got the makings of a rudimentary banjo. |
#5
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If you don't believe IR isn't suitable for live sound, check out the artist testimonials at: https://audiosprockets.com/artists/
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Patrick 2012 Martin HD-28V 1984 Martin Shenandoah D-2832 2018 Gretsch G5420TG Oscar Schmidt Autoharp, unknown vintage ToneDexter Bugera V22 Infinium |
#6
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I think what is true is that sound changes when you play at higher volumes, in different rooms, and with an audience. Especially with an acoustic that tends to interact with the sound system. This is nothing new, and nothing to do with IRs. The sound you dial in at home at low volume may or may not translate to a live venue. I remember when I was a kid playing in a rock band that I spent all afternoon at a club where we were playing dialing in my "perfect" sound by myself in the empty club - it sounded amazing when I was done! It took me all of 30 seconds that night with the band playing and a full audience to undo everything I'd set up. What sounded great in an empty room with just me didn't cut it in the real gig situation. There was an article some time back (Sound on Sound maybe?) about how Peter Frampton uses ToneDexter, and how they had lots of different IRs, made with different mics and in different rooms, etc, and they'd choose between them for the show. Really no different than how you might change your EQ, reverb, or whatever, from gig to gig depending on the room and the audience size, noise level and so on.
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#7
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#8
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I've tried tonedexter live. And some store bought and homemade IRS thru my stomp.
What doug said above rings true for me. What sounded good at home didnt sound good Live at volume.. full house.. I have stopped using them as I dont find the minimal Difference worth the effort.. ymmv As with any effect less is generally more. And I kept dialing it back until I wasn't using it anymore.. |
#9
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Perhaps I don't understand what is meant by IR?
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Happiness Is A New Set Of Strings L-20A Last edited by L20A; 09-29-2022 at 10:50 AM. |
#10
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Just one data point: I went to see the CA Guitar Trio a while back - my wife got me tickets as a birthday present. I didn't let on that I was less than excited about seeing them, since the live recordings I'd come across were about as quacky as I've ever heard. I was pleasantly surprised on getting to the show to see ToneDexters in each guitarists pedal boards, and as it turned out, the sound was stunning, and very acoustic-sounding. Not a duck to be seen or heard anywhere on stage :-) These devices are revolutionizing live acoustic sound, and to me the difference is way worth the effort, both when performing and when listening to live music. And it's only going to keep on getting better.
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Music: Spotify, Bandcamp Videos: You Tube Channel Books: Hymns for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), Christmas Carols for Fingerstyle Guitar (std tuning), A DADGAD Christmas, Alternate Tunings book Online Course: Alternate Tunings for Fingerstyle Guitar |
#11
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Patrick 2012 Martin HD-28V 1984 Martin Shenandoah D-2832 2018 Gretsch G5420TG Oscar Schmidt Autoharp, unknown vintage ToneDexter Bugera V22 Infinium |
#12
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IRs, like a new distortion pedal for an electric guitarist, need some care to use properly. Lots more ways for it to sound bad than good, but imagine all of rock music with all the guitars sounding like Buddy Holly.
IMO IRs are a total game changer for getting away with the factory under saddle transducers that are stock in most new guitars. Also, a very nice step up for a minimum SBT installation. However, a good dual source system with a microphone and the skill to use it, is competitive. I've generated IRs for one of the members of the CA Guitar Trio with good feedback on its performance.
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jf45ir Free DIY Acoustic Guitar IR Generator .wav file, 30 seconds, pickup left, mic right, open position strumming best...send to direct email below I'll send you 100/0, 75/25, 50/50 & 0/100 IR/Bypass IRs IR Demo, read the description too: https://youtu.be/SELEE4yugjE My duo's website and my email... [email protected] Jon Fields |
#13
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There seem to be 3 statements that are commonly asserted as "accepted wisdom" that I can't reconcile... 1 - "Quackiness" is a serious issue that is worth considerable effort to address 2 - IR entirely addresses quackiness 3 - IR is not worth the hassle for the small benefit they confer. |
#14
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Sorry to drift off topic, maybe he played a ToneDexter to bring it home?
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#15
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I use IR live and it’s been perfectly acceptable. I think the amount you use and other EQ concerns might make a difference.
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