Mistakes fingers - strings? fingerstyle

[Mrsecco]

I am very disheartened about fingerstyle.

I don't think I'll ever become as good a person as people I follow on youtube.
I certainly don't want to become like Sungha Jung but at least doing 25% of what he can do would make me live well.

But I realize that it is useless to commit myself. Because I'll always make the same mistakes. I've been playing guitar for years. But fingerstyle for almost a year. I learned some songs but also in the songs that I should be able to do, I MAKE ERRORS ANYWAY.

I tried to make videos to make you understand what kind of mistakes I'm talking about. I hope you can help me understand where, how, and IF I CAN IMPROVE.

Mine are finger errors on the strings. Sometimes I hit the string badly, SOMETIMES I DON'T EVEN TAKE THE RIGHT KEY on the guitar.

Sometimes the position of the fingers on a string is so strange to me that it sounds bad.

I try to make you understand what I'm talking about even if it doesn't seem to be clear in these two videos:

SUPER MARIO BROS:

Between 00:29 and 00:30 you can already understand (I hope) what mistakes I am talking about.
https://youtu.be/2UTw-cAboOo

In the video I will point out the errors every time they happen.
So to try to make you understand what kind of mistakes I am talking about


BLACKBIRD: (song I have been playing for a year where DESPITE EVERYTHING I still make this mistake), ALREADY AT THE BEGINNING, per minute:
https://youtu.be/TtFCYx33lL0 minute: 00: 02- 00:03

I consider myself technically poor and invalid, I learn the song but I get lost in these mistakes. I hope you can comfort me and help me with a solution.

[Wrighty]

Firstly, please understand that everybody makes mistakes just like you do - nobody plays without mistakes, especially when they are starting a piece or fairly new to fingerstyle.

Looking at your videos my main observation is that you are trying to play way too fast for your current level - pick one piece (Blackbird for example) and work through it very slowly starting by breaking it into sections. Do not play it faster until you are hitting every note cleanly and liking the sound you get. You need to go backwards before you can move forwards - speed will come, but speed with poor tone just sounds awful as you are experiencing.

Something that has also helped me is playing scales with a focus on technique - both right and left hand.

Lastly, you may want to find a better place to sit and play and try to improve your posture.

It takes time and commitment to making your playing sound good and you need to build it up slowly.

Good luck and don't lose the faith..

[Mrsecco]

Originally Posted by Wrighty

Firstly, please understand that everybody makes mistakes just like you do - nobody plays without mistakes, especially when they are starting a piece or fairly new to fingerstyle.

Looking at your videos my main observation is that you are trying to play way too fast for your current level - pick one piece (Blackbird for example) and work through it very slowly starting by breaking it into sections. Do not play it faster until you are hitting every note cleanly and liking the sound you get. You need to go backwards before you can move forwards - speed will come, but speed with poor tone just sounds awful as you are experiencing.

Something that has also helped me is playing scales with a focus on technique - both right and left hand.

Lastly, you may want to find a better place to sit and play and try to improve your posture.

It takes time and commitment to making your playing sound good and you need to build it up slowly.

Good luck and don't lose the faith..

for the post-posture, you're right
but the guitar is very small
I don't find myself sitting down and putting it on my legs because the guitar being small will turn out low

On the fact of going slow, I agree on this too
but blackbird to tell you I have been doing it FOR A YEAR, I went slow many many many times.
and the song comes out well BUT EVERY TIME this error pops up.
I understand the importance of going slowly but it seems my hand won't understand it anyway.
After a year of practice I have always made the same mistake even though I am doing the song decently.
What could be done about it? back to slow down again? what if i don't get the results?
Thank you very much if you will answer me.
Could you also tell me more about some technical exercises I can do?
any videos to follow?

[Wrighty]

Originally Posted by Mrsecco

for the post-posture, you're right
but the guitar is very small
I don't find myself sitting down and putting it on my legs because the guitar being small will turn out low

On the fact of going slow, I agree on this too
but blackbird to tell you I have been doing it FOR A YEAR, I went slow many many many times.
and the song comes out well BUT EVERY TIME this error pops up.
I understand the importance of going slowly but it seems my hand won't understand it anyway.
After a year of practice I have always made the same mistake even though I am doing the song decently.
What could be done about it? back to slow down again? what if i don't get the results?
Thank you very much if you will answer me.
Could you also tell me more about some technical exercises I can do?
any videos to follow?

Yes, slow it back down again - all you have done is practiced making mistakes and then entrenched them into your playing so you keep making the same mistake..

You also should consider making your practice as error free as you can - if you make the mistake then stop and go back until you don't make it and then practice that again and again so your fingers learn to do it right. If you can do it slow then you will be able to do it faster over time - it's not magic.

There are many scales you could learn - I am a classical player mostly but there are loads of practice scales you could find with a good search.

You sound like you expect to make the mistake - and so, of course, you do! Change your mindset and start playing slowly and mindfully.

[MThomson]

If you are making the same mistake over and over, chances are it is ingrained in your muscle memory. Isolate that section strip it back to unbearably slow. Practice until it's perfect and gradually increase the speed (a metronome is really useful for this). Whenever the mistake crops up again, slow it down a couple of steps and repeat. You will get there.

The hardest part of playing is learning how to practice effectively. So give yourself a break. You have a chance to learn and you WILL get there.

[Doons]

You are farther along than I am. In fact, one section near the end sounded pretty darn good. Recently after many failed attempts at trying to work through different pieces, that were above my current skill level, I have finally decided to do the work. Simpler pieces, slowing down, not practicing mistakes, repetition of problem areas etc. Much of what was mentioned here. If it was easy, we wouldn't appreciate the skill of those who have spent the time to master the style. I have gone from the level of "For the love of God, please stop", to "If I didn't know better, that almost sounded like music". I have played guitar (on and off, mostly off) for years as a strummer. This fingerstyle thing is most certainly not that. The progress is painfully slow but there is progress. Maybe my fingers aren't learning disabled? Time will tell. My next goal is to reach the "That kind of sucked" level... I draw ever closer!!!

Keep up the good fight... I see music on the horizon for you!!!

[rick-slo]

I watched the first video. Specifically at the 29 second mark.

Basically excess bouncy hand movement mainly caused by poor preparation with fingers and the thumb being in the wrong spot.
For example starting on the note on the first string eighth fret with the pinky what's the fretting hand index finger doing poised over
the fifth string and the thumb sticking out beyond the edge of the fretboard? Watch your recording to see how much fretting hand
wrist and thumb movement you are using to complete that little run.

For practice on that spot start the first three notes of that run with your index finger planted on first string fifth fret. Notice how much
smoother that goes with less wrist movement and the fingers lined up in advance and positioned just a little a little above the fretboard.
That is closer to how you would best end up regarding avoiding less frenetic movements.

Also slow the tempo down to a point you can manage to avoid bad habits. You can always speed up later as you practice the piece and
you become able to do so while still playing accurately and cleanly.

[charles Tauber]

In most types of human endeavour, those who are good at that endeavour work at it to reach the ability that they have. The work that they do in that pursuit isn't brute force, isn't mindless repetition. To be good at an endeavour most have to spend some time learning how to work on that endeavour to get the most progress. In other words, one has to to learn how to practice.

Effective practice, as others have stated in this discussion, isn't simply repeating the same errors over and over again and expecting that it will magically be better. As others have said, part of effective practice is to not play faster than one can correctly play a piece. Playing slower also allows one to pay attention to the details of how something is being played in addition to what is being played. How something is being played is often referred to as "technique".

Technique is the "how" you play something - which fingers you use, how you hold your hand, how you move from one position (fret) to another, the angle of your wrist... "Good" technique is what allows one to play progressively more difficult pieces of music. "Poor" technique is what prevents one from playing progressively difficult pieces of music. Poor technique are the bad habits, the hand positions, the fingerings, etc. that make a piece of music more difficult than it has to be - or prevents one from playing it successfully at all.

The things that rick-slo mentioned are all "technique" issues. In a nutshell, if you want to play better, you need to work on playing better. The fastest and most effective way to do that is to work on technique.

One starting point is to aim for minimal hand movement. Wherever possible eliminate extraneous rotation of the wrist, keep your knuckles parallel to the strings and maximize using fingers that are just over the notes you want to play. Effortless playing comes, in part, by not expending effort unnecessarily. Look for economy of motion in your hand and finger positions and in your choice of which fingers play which frets. Look to what notes came before where you are and what notes come after where you are to determine what produces the least amount of motion and effort. Do that for every note.

If you find that you don't know what you don't know, take lessons from someone who focuses specifically on playing with good technique. Elite athletes, for example, all have coaches who, amongst other things, help them with their technique.

[reeve21]

OP--I have a similar background. I've been playing a little longer at fingerstyle, but still struggle with some of the same things.

After about 6 months of learning on my own using books and videos I hit a wall, and realized my technique was holding me back, but wasn't sure what the problem was. So I found a good teacher who took me back to square one. We did a whole lot of exercises, scales, hammers, slides, pull offs etc. for a good year. Lots of new left hand grips I never encountered while strumming songs I had heard on the radio in my youth.

This was a big help. Now, if I go slow enough, I can figure out most arrangements. Ragtime piano tunes are really testing me right now, but I'm making progress. He reminds me at least once a week to slow down, way down. Don't practice mistakes. I think that is the best piece of advice anyone could give you. Challenge yourself to make it musical even at very slow tempos.

Don't give up. When you get discouraged revert to something you know by heart and can play well, it will lift your spirits. Tony Rice once said something to the effect that he never performed a piece until he had practiced it for at least a year. So it takes a very long time even for the greats!

[tdlwhite]

Wrighty is right - you're like me and want to play things at full speed to early!

I think there's more than one way of interpreting the words 'I learn the song'.

(1) In one sense it can mean that we learn which frets/strings to put fingers on and pluck at the right time. I find that part challenging as it requires reading tab/score, working out fingering for left hand and right hand, sometimes slowing down a video to see how someone else does it. It's a great puzzle!

(2) It can also mean learning new techniques like barres and hammer-ons and slides and harmonics and artificial harmonics and bends and weird grace-notes and percussive taps and thumb-wraps and more! Some of those are really annoying too, as they might not even sound right at slow speeds, or might need a different technique as you speed them up.

(3) And it can mean learning the dynamics of a piece and the emotions and story-telling involved in delivering a 'performance' that resonates with an audience.

(4) There's more work to do! Committing to memory can be a challenge. Then playing over any minor errors without making them obvious. Then playing it through in the bedroom. Then playing it in front of people (or in front of the camera).

My main difficulty -- which I see in your playing -- is that I often crack open the victory champagne when I've completed number (1). I feel that 'learning' the notes in order and getting my hands to do them is the win. But there's always so much more to do. And often, (2) and (3) force me to go back and re-learn parts properly. (this could mean tweaking fingering, or practicing that 9-fret slide up to the high B note over and over and over in isolation so that when you have to do it in the middle of the piece, you do it easy peasy.)

Good news is, the bits where you don't make mistakes sound great!

Tom

[AZ715]

I read the replies to your original post before actually listening to your video. I began to think, yeah...the usual advice is to slow down, and here we go again. But...whoa! That is way too speedy for your level of play...or most peoples', as far as that goes.

You've got to take your time learning fingerstyle, and we're talking years of practice. Try to forget the outcome and enjoy the process of slowly improving! It's worth it.

For what it's worth, I've been playing fingerstyle for four years now, and I don't think I've ever played a single piece that didn't have at least one mistake in it.

I've no doubt, in watching you play, that you can do this well. Just give yourself the time!

[ssstewart]

ive learned to play how i want to play it after 40+ years, not as it says to play a piece. i didnt learn this until around 10 years into fingerpicking. always following the p-i-m-p-or what have you. less focus on the technically advised method and more focus on how i enjoy to play it, happy player = happy fingers= happy results.

some of the greatest players imo were playing how they wanted to, not how they were supposed to play : Elizabeth Cotton/ Django/Jeff Healey. when Jeff was 12 years old his parents brought a teacher into the house to try to teach him not to play the guitar on his lap like that...the Teacher listened to him play and urged them " dont change it" and we were blessed by that.

in your mind, forget about the mistakes and enjoy the moment and your fingers wont remember the mistakes and enjoy the moment.

[TBman]

The hardest thing about learning to play fingerstyle is you have to learn everything is slow motion. You have to take your ego and throw it out the window and only practice at a speed where there are zero mistakes. Zero mistakes. You should focus on the sections that give you trouble.

Also the position changes that give you the most problems should be turned into an exercise where you are continually changing into the position from other positions. If you keep making a mistake on just one note of the position, then practice changing into that one note, then practice changing into two notes of the new position, then three, etc. Do it in slow motion and then bring your speed up over time.

Learning a tune slower or faster than someone else doesn't mean anything. Music is not a contest. Stop racing.

Sometimes I try to learn something and even though I can play the positions, it doesn't sound musical enough. Just getting your fingers there and playing the notes cleanly and going on to the next position isn't good enough. It has to flow cleanly so that the listener forgets its someone playing a guitar and just loses themselves in the music. That all comes from playing in super slow motion, gaining 100% confidence in what you are doing, listening to what you are doing and letting the notes flow into music. Not easy to do and I rarely accomplish it.

A musician makes music. A guitar player plays chords. Big difference and takes a lot of practice.

[hatamoto]

Originally Posted by Mrsecco

I am very disheartened about fingerstyle.

I don't think I'll ever become as good a person as people I follow on youtube.
I certainly don't want to become like Sungha Jung but at least doing 25% of what he can do would make me live well.

But I realize that it is useless to commit myself. Because I'll always make the same mistakes. I've been playing guitar for years. But fingerstyle for almost a year. I learned some songs but also in the songs that I should be able to do, I MAKE ERRORS ANYWAY.

I tried to make videos to make you understand what kind of mistakes I'm talking about. I hope you can help me understand where, how, and IF I CAN IMPROVE.

Mine are finger errors on the strings. Sometimes I hit the string badly, SOMETIMES I DON'T EVEN TAKE THE RIGHT KEY on the guitar.

Sometimes the position of the fingers on a string is so strange to me that it sounds bad.

I try to make you understand what I'm talking about even if it doesn't seem to be clear in these two videos:

SUPER MARIO BROS:

Between 00:29 and 00:30 you can already understand (I hope) what mistakes I am talking about.
https://youtu.be/2UTw-cAboOo

In the video I will point out the errors every time they happen.
So to try to make you understand what kind of mistakes I am talking about


BLACKBIRD: (song I have been playing for a year where DESPITE EVERYTHING I still make this mistake), ALREADY AT THE BEGINNING, per minute:
https://youtu.be/TtFCYx33lL0 minute: 00: 02- 00:03

I consider myself technically poor and invalid, I learn the song but I get lost in these mistakes. I hope you can comfort me and help me with a solution.

Don't give up. You're only playing fingerstyle for "almost a year". That's not a long time. As already mentioned by others you need to slow down and isolate the difficult parts. Learn to play with a steady beat.

Try to relax as much as possible. I can see that you are tense. Really think hard about how your fingers can transition with the least amount of movement as possible. Find anchor points in your transitions and practice it slowly.

[rwhitney]

I haven’t read the other replies so I probably am repeating what’s already been said, but the way I correct physical mistakes is to:

1) Identify the names of the chords and notes involved in the passage, and analyze what’s happening with the fingers involved in the problem spot.
2) Slow down. I can’t play something fast until I can play it slowly.
3) Consciously identify the error precisely in words, e.g., “I need to land my index finger on the second string, third fret, my middle finger on the fourth string, fourth fret, my pinky on the third string, fifth fret, etc” and consciously identify what is going on, e.g., “I need to aim for the third fret first and keep my hand relaxed so my other fingers fall into place when making that shift”, — stuff like that. If I miss again, I repeat verbally what finger goes where (“Oh common, pinky, third string’s where you need to go”) and try again and repeat slowly until I can do it at speed.
4) Isolate the mistake within the approach and exit of the motion that contains the mistake and practice it in this context until the whole passage is smooth.
5) Be patient and enjoy my progress.

I also practice scales and with a metronome for a portion of my time, both invaluable.