Boutique vs Martin for dreads

[Rev Roy]

Originally Posted by FPicker

About 20 years ago I took my precious Collings D2H to jam with a guy who had a Martin HD-28. I smugly supposed that mine would be the better guitar.

I was completely wrong. The HD-28 sounded better.

Assuming the feel is equal, above a certain price point I think it comes down to particular guitars.
You can make the same style instrument to the same specs with the same the woods, and when they come out they can wind up sounding a lot different. A mandolin manufacturer told me that.

I was in a shop once that had two identical Taylor guitars, same model, one next to the other. They sounded different.

The mass production guitars are made to a "formula", but it is one that often produces good sounding guitars. Even in eras where they had it "wrong", there are good sounding guitars. My sister's mid-70s Martin 000 sounds great.

But you do have to play them first. All of them, IMO.

Yep, guitars are organic and no two are going to sound exactly alike. But, ultimately, I think it comes down to particular ears. When a guitar sounds “better” to a particular person that subjective judgement doesn’t become universally true. That’s why I try to follow my ears, not other folks opinions or names on headstocks.

[martingitdave]

Originally Posted by FPicker

About 20 years ago I took my precious Collings D2H to jam with a guy who had a Martin HD-28. I smugly supposed that mine would be the better guitar.

I was completely wrong. The HD-28 sounded better.

Assuming the feel is equal, above a certain price point I think it comes down to particular guitars.
You can make the same style instrument to the same specs with the same the woods, and when they come out they can wind up sounding a lot different. A mandolin manufacturer told me that.

I was in a shop once that had two identical Taylor guitars, same model, one next to the other. They sounded different.

The mass production guitars are made to a "formula", but it is one that often produces good sounding guitars. Even in eras where they had it "wrong", there are good sounding guitars. My sister's mid-70s Martin 000 sounds great.

But you do have to play them first. All of them, IMO.

No question that it all comes down to the individual guitar.

[TJNies]

I have "climbed the ladder" price-wise in the acoustic world. All I'd wanted in the early 80s was a Martin M-38. Alas, I was a very poor college student who had no chance to buy.

But, fast-forward to the present where I could afford to buy many boutique instruments. I'd never tried a Brazilian backed OM, and was interested to try one. A local dealer had a Bourgeois OM with a torrified Adi top and BRZ. I Brought along a Martin Custom Shop 000 in style 42 with Guatelmalan RW and Swiss spruce top as reference.

No comparison: the Bourgeois was ok, but I certainly wouldn't spend $10k on it vs the Martin. Or even-up trade.

[MoonSpruce]

Originally Posted by macmanmatty

Love , care and extra effort into building it. A custom builder will take his time and make a better product than large name maker. Better glue joints, better carving, better bracing shaping. Not that martin doesn't do a fine job but hand made by a custom luthier will usually be better made.

I believe Dana outsources to China for some parts. Same as Breedlove and a maker in Singapore called Maestro. It’s the future of guitars, as the labor their is just simply cheaper.

[Matts67]

Originally Posted by MoonSpruce

I believe Dana outsources to China for some parts. Same as Breedlove and a maker in Singapore called Maestro. It’s the future of guitars, as the labor their is just simply cheaper.

And so the false rumors begin. A collaborative effort between Bourgeois and Eastman to offer a new line of affordable instruments does not equal Bourgeois outsourcing labor / materials to China.

[Wild Bill Jones]

It’s like Ervin Somogyi said: “Is a handmade guitar better than a factory made guitar? It depends. Is a factory made guitar better than a handmade guitar? It depends,” I have both.

[TDavis]

I remember what an AGF friend told me a while back: "Just because it's a boutique guitar...doesn't mean it's better guitar."

[Dbone]

Originally Posted by Ozarkpicker

I remember what an AGF friend told me a while back: "Just because it's a boutique guitar...doesn't mean it's better guitar."

A bet yeah it does in a lot of, or even most, cases, but I think what you are saying is generally true. True in the sense that Martin and the like can make gems that are every bit as good, albeit less consistently.

[Tnfiddler]

Originally Posted by MoonSpruce

I believe Dana outsources to China for some parts. Same as Breedlove and a maker in Singapore called Maestro. It’s the future of guitars, as the labor their is just simply cheaper.

Where did you hear about this outsourcing?

[archerscreek]

Better sounding might be subjective, but better customer service is obvious when it comes Collings vs. The way Collings stands behind their instruments, guitars and mandolins, is astounding. Stories of their service are really amazing, especially compared to you can guess who. I have zero doubt that top flight customer service is part of Collings’ price premium.

[MoonSpruce]

Originally Posted by Matts67

And so the false rumors begin. A collaborative effort between Bourgeois and Eastman to offer a new line of affordable instruments does not equal Bourgeois outsourcing labor / materials to China.

Are Eastman not in China? Just because you call it a “collaborative effort” doesn’t mean it isn’t just a fancy word for outsourcing. What else do you call having a Chinese company manufacture the body, neck, etc. just not the voicing of the top?

[Dave JH]

I think in general Martins authentic series can hang with the best of the boutiques. Then it comes down to the individual examples

[buddyhu]

Originally Posted by MoonSpruce

Are Eastman not in China? Just because you call it a “collaborative effort” doesn’t mean it isn’t just a fancy word for outsourcing. What else do you call having a Chinese company manufacture the body, neck, etc. just not the voicing of the top?

Eastman is not Bourgeois. VW is not Porsche. Mexican made Martins with laminate back and sides are not the same as Martin Authentics or Martin Custom shop.

Generalizations have some value, but that value is limited. What is best is to play and hear specific guitars, and to decide on the basis of that comparison.

[Matts67]

Originally Posted by MoonSpruce

Are Eastman not in China? Just because you call it a “collaborative effort” doesn’t mean it isn’t just a fancy word for outsourcing. What else do you call having a Chinese company manufacture the body, neck, etc. just not the voicing of the top?

To say that Dana Bourgeois outsources his labor to China, because of products that are not yet released (and we don't even know how they will be branded) is kind of a cheap low-blow, don't you think? And yes, it is a collaborative effort - two companies who target different audiences are combining resources to bring higher quality products to a lower priced target audience. Sounds like a win/win to me. And, like the poster above me stated, does Martin outsourcing their cheaper products to Mexico mean that the Authentics, or even the Standard series models are outsourced as well? Nope, that's apples to oranges, much like the generalization you made. And since this specifically has nothing to do with this thread topic, I've said all I need to say and will leave this alone.

[lhnewman]

Originally Posted by Deputy289

Took home a 2020 Bourgeois D-Vintage this week with Sitka and Indian Rosewood and couldn’t be more in love. It reminds me so much of my old HD-28 in both sound as well as looks. Cosmetically, you would be hard pressed to spot any differences.

The Bourgeois is $1,500 more expensive, even though you are looking at roughly the same ingredients. My question is, when you pay for the premium price for the boutique version, what is going into that extra price tag? Better woods? More “handmade” aspects? Boutique notoriety?

I wonder how your 2020 Bourgeois would compare to my 1973 Martin D-35....age and playing time does mean something, no?