Dead Horse File No. 27b...

[Italuke]

Are all plain strings exactly the same?

What's the current science here? Both comparing across type (e.g. PB vs. 80/20 of the same brand) and across brands (e.g. D'Addario PB vs. GHS PB).

Go...😉

[Tannin]

Yes. And no.

Yes because they are all plain steel.

No because the string manufacturers buy in their wire from different makers who do things in different ways, and with slightly different alloys. And no again because some are coated, some are heat-treated, and most are neither.

So if you compare, say, the plain .12 strings from a set of D'Addario PBs and a set of D'Addario 80/20s, they will almost certainly be identical. And if you buy a set of 12s from one of the other string manufacturers who happen to buy the same wire from the same wire factory, those 12s will be the same too.

So in broad, yes. In detail, maybe.

[Italuke]

Originally Posted by Tannin

Yes. And no.

Yes because they are all plain steel.

No because the string manufacturers buy in their wire from different makers who do things in different ways, and with slightly different alloys. And no again because some are coated, some are heat-treated, and most are neither.

So if you compare, say, the plain .12 strings from a set of D'Addario PBs and a set of D'Addario 80/20s, they will almost certainly be identical. And if you buy a set of 12s from one of the other string manufacturers who happen to buy the same wire from the same wire factory, those 12s will be the same too.

So in broad, yes. In detail, maybe.

Right. And so, in all of our "what strings" hand-wringing, over-analyzing discussions here, it turns out that we're really only talking about two thirds of the "sound" of our guitars, i.e. only 4 of the 6 strings. Maybe even less if your playing involves a lot of leads etc. on the top two strings.

[Tannin]

Not entirely. My understanding is that there are differences between some plain strings and some other plain strings. With most electric strings, the 3rd string is plain too. And with my baritone, there is only one plain string: the "B" string (typically F# on a baritone but mine is tuned to G) is a .22 wound, and I love it. I'd have 6 woulnd strings if it was sensibly possible. Plain strings are always the problem children.

But in the main, yes: all that fuss we make about only four strings.

[tadol]

Personally, I’d say they were all extremely similar - like, most OM guitars are extremely similar. Identical? No -

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Italuke

Are all plain strings exactly the same?

Hi Italuke

I don't care…and I use them interchangeably.

[RRuskin]

Regardless of anything said below, I've yet to notice a difference in sound or feel of any plain string of the same gauge.

RR

Originally Posted by Tannin

Yes. And no.

Yes because they are all plain steel.

No because the string manufacturers buy in their wire from different makers who do things in different ways, and with slightly different alloys. And no again because some are coated, some are heat-treated, and most are neither.

So if you compare, say, the plain .12 strings from a set of D'Addario PBs and a set of D'Addario 80/20s, they will almost certainly be identical. And if you buy a set of 12s from one of the other string manufacturers who happen to buy the same wire from the same wire factory, those 12s will be the same too.

So in broad, yes. In detail, maybe.

[srick]

In 2015, we had a go around on this topic with Roger Siminoff, owner of Straight up Strings

Roger - I have a few questions that have bugged me for many moons. We usually talk about the wound strings and their variables, but always ignore the unwound strings.

• Do most manufacturers us the same alloy for their unwound strings?
• Do manufacturing processes (ie) how you draw out and/or anneal the wire affect the resultant tension?
• How about gauge? is a .012 from one company equivalent to another?
• How about tone? Are their tonal differences in unwound stings?
• Are the unwound strings coated in the same way?

I think you get my drift. Thanks - looking forward to your thoughts here.

best,

Rick

[

Originally Posted by Siminoff

Rick…

You're going to open up my flood gates if you get me talking about strings! (All great questions - thank you!!!)

Same alloy? As far as the steel itself is concerned, there are several manufacturers of high-carbon steel "mandolin wire" (in the US and worldwide) and the specs for their alloy is virtually the same, and the resultant wire is virtually the same. The key difference between these makers is how accurately and consistently they draw their wire in its initial bulk size (before being drawn down to musical wire sizes). (As a point of interest, the wire is called "mandolin wire" up to .050" and called "piano wire" in thicknesses above .050").

How wire is drawn? Yes, how the plain wire is drawn, how many sizing dies it goes through, the condition of the dies, and how efficiently its temperature is controlled during drawing does affect its hardness and the resultant elasticity, both of which affect tension. What sets manufacturers aside from each other is how they draw their wire. The critical factor here is how the wire is straightened and the number die stages the wire is drawn through as comes from the starting spool and is drawn down to fractional sizes for musical core wire. The greater the number of dies, the greater the quality of the wire - metallurgically, and dimensionally. (The elasticity of this wire is an interesting side note. You may have noticed that as your strings go out of tune, you are always tightening them UP to pitch. The high-carbon steel wire is considerately elastic; on a 26" scale instrument, a plain .012" E string will stretch about 1/4" from when you have the string snug to when you bring it up to pitch.)

Gauge? Yes, we're measuring our wire to 5 decimal places and it has been my experience that most wire manufacturers are reasonably consistent, gauge wise. I've not worked with many of the non-USA based wire manufacturers, so I can't really comment on the wire quality and consistency of some foreign-made string sets.

Tone? As long as the strings being compared are a high-carbon steel (HCS), and the gauge of the test string is the same as the string it is being compared to, there is virtually no difference in tone, sustain, or amplitude.

Coating? There are really two issues here: plating and coating. The high-carbon steel wire - whether used for plain strings or as core for wound strings - needs to be protected because it is very susceptible to corrosion. So, while the alloy of the wire itself (as previously mentioned) might be virtually the same, the plating process is quite different among musical string manufacturers. (How this is done and what plating techniques are used would take a whole page here, and some of the processes are confidential to musical string manufacturers.) Regarding coating, as I mentioned in a previous post, the bronze wrap must receive a protective coating to keep it bright in the package and on in-store guitars to prevent it from tarnishing.

Roger

Link to thread:

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=406222

[Italuke]

<<<Coating? There are really two issues here: plating and coating. The high-carbon steel wire - whether used for plain strings or as core for wound strings - needs to be protected because it is very susceptible to corrosion. So, while the alloy of the wire itself (as previously mentioned) might be virtually the same, the plating process is quite different among musical string manufacturers. (How this is done and what plating techniques are used would take a whole page here, and some of the processes are confidential to musical string manufacturers.) Regarding coating, as I mentioned in a previous post, the bronze wrap must receive a protective coating to keep it bright in the package and on in-store guitars to prevent it from tarnishing.>>>

Aha, so this helps. I may have seen the thread at one point but then got confused by other more recent ones.

So this confirms though that e.g. GHS PBs and GHS Vintage Bronze likely use the exact same first two strings, but that there may in fact be a slight difference in the wires between GHS PBs and D'Addario PBs, due to differences in the PLATING process. And that's even before any talk of coatings, which may also differ somewhat tonally.

[srick]

Originally Posted by Italuke

So this confirms though that e.g. GHS PBs and GHS Vintage Bronze likely use the exact same first two strings, but that there may in fact be a slight difference in the wires between GHS PBs and D'Addario PBs, due to differences in the PLATING process. And that's even before any talk of coatings, which may also differ somewhat tonally.

Originally Posted by Siminoff

Tone? As long as the strings being compared are a high-carbon steel (HCS), and the gauge of the test string is the same as the string it is being compared to, there is virtually no difference in tone, sustain, or amplitude.

Luke - so, yes, there might be slight differences in the wire, but according to Roger Siminoff, when it comes to tone, it's minimal. And, as you know, the plating layer or coating layer thickness on an unwound string is minimal (unlike wound strings, there's no place to hide).

IMO, the majority of variation in tone comes from my playing, my picks, the humidity, and the guitar. My playing however, is the key. A set of ears will quickly accommodate to tonal variations, but errors in fretting, rhythm and picking (of which I make many!) are easily discerned.

best,

Rick