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#61
06-06-2020, 09:47 AM
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I've owned several Martin guitars over the years that were made with Braz rosewood, and have played many others.
Luckily for me, I think the best sounding rosewood is EIR and would never pay a premium for another Braz guitar unless it sounded off-the-charts great. |
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#63
06-06-2020, 12:39 PM
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#64
06-06-2020, 12:48 PM
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I have a Manouk Papazian built in 1971 with old Swiss spruce over old straight grained Brazilian. It’s a fantastic guitar which I am grateful to have. What else is there to say?
There is a lot of swirly Brazilian which does not appeal to me. Others love it. The variety of quality within a species of wood is at least as wide and variable as between species. Each piece of wood is unique. Hans
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1971 Papazian (swiss spruce/braz RW) 1987 Lowden L32p (sitka/ind RW) 1992 Froggy Bottom F (19th cent. german spruce/koa) 2000 Froggy Bottom H12c (adir/ind RW) 2016 Froggy Bottom K mod (adir/madrose; my son's) 2010 Voyage-Air VAOM-2C http://www.soundclick.com/hanstunes (recorded on Froggy H12c) |
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#65
06-06-2020, 02:50 PM
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My $02
Yes, in my experience Brazilian has its own unique signature timbral characteristics. Like any item that is rare and when demand outstrips supply you will pay a premium for it. That said, when it is used properly by an experienced builder, it interacts with the top via an air couple to create a haunting euphonic bass rumble and sparkling, yet non harsh overtones. BRW can be very unforgiving as well amplifying playing technique flaws as well. Some people love this, others like it but the cost is viewed as prohibitive, and others simply do not care for it all.
There are still some AAA quality quartersawn sets available in a number of established luthier’s wood lockers. I also see a whole lot of AA and A flat and rift sawn sets as well. The AAA, AA and A quality of the sets relates to physical stability in the context of humidity swings and aesthetic grading. You also see marketing terms like “master grade” and “AAAAA” as well but these frankly are puffery marketing in my opinion. The sonic potential is in the hands of the luthier who 1) selects it and 2) how they use it in the context of building a guitar. Think of it like grades of beef (e.g. prime, choice, select etc.). Focus more on the skill of the chef than the quality of the meat. A great chef (or luthier) can do more with a piece of choice beef than an average chef with a piece of prime can they not? Spend more time finding the great chef vs. the quality of ingredients. While I do like Brazilian Rosewood (I own two BRW guitars, both with AAA quality sets), I also like other rosewoods and many other glassy and woody hardwoods. First decide on the type/size of guitar and the builder who you want to work with. The choice of top will be infinitely more influential. Back and side wood selection will depend both on your sonic, playing and aesthetic goals, what your builder has in their wood locker and what they recommend for your guitar. It honestly depends on what YOU like, how and what you play. Many players prefer non-rosewood, koa, mahogany or maple over BRW. In today’s market, expect to pay a hefty upgrade charge for a seasoned, AAA quality BRW back and side set in the $4,000 to $7,000 range from experienced luthiers. You don’t need to be a wood expert, your luthier does! Your job is to know what your likes, dislikes and goals are and to be able to effectively articulate it with your luthier. You may find out that BRW is exactly what you are looking for or NOT. There are many great tonewood options and depending on YOU it might be something completely different.
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A bunch of nice archtops, flattops, a gypsy & nylon strings… Last edited by iim7V7IM7; 06-06-2020 at 02:56 PM. |
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#66
06-06-2020, 03:21 PM
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I am the proud and grateful player/owner of a 2016 custom Santa Cruz 1934 D
Braz/ADI with Braz finger board and bridge. The bling is style 45. The guitar was presented to my wife and me at SCGC's 40th birthday by Mr. Hoover. The woods were from the 1930s and selected by Richard. I ordered the guitar after long and detailed conversations with the dealer and Richard and "Friends of SCGC ". Yes I spent a good chunk of my hard earned $$ on it....but that was my decision...well to be REALLY honest my wife said OK also. It has the voice and volume and sustain that reflects the art and science of SCGC . Was it worth the money......YES. And the experience of dealing with folks like those at Santa Cruz was an experience that I'll never forget. Others may not agree and that's fine...... I own an instrument that I will pass on to my family and until then I have no regrets.
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HFox Life is a journey...not a guided tour... |
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#67
06-06-2020, 06:25 PM
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I have a 1960s D28 with Brazilian back and sides. Didn't buy it; it was my Dad's bluegrass guitar. He doesn't play steel string any more so he gave it to me. I had it set up properly at a good shop and it sounds nice and is easy to play. Only regret: I had them set it up for light strings and I think it would benefit from mediums.
I figured when I got it I would like it better than any other guitar because, a D28 is a classic. Plus, ya know, Brazilian rosewood, right? But...when I reach for a dreadnaught...I almost always grab the one that is sits next to it which is a Taylor 517 (spruce/mahagony) I bought a little while back. Something about that sound seems to work for me and the way I play. I'm surprised but that is just how it is. I guess it is all about taste and what we want to hear at a particular moment in our musical journey. |
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#68
06-06-2020, 08:31 PM
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Ryan, my own preference in dreadnought-sized guitars is mahogany, as well. I had a gorgeous Martin CS-11-21 Custom Shop dread in Madagascar rosewood that looks and sounds magnificent, but my D-18 actually works better for the music that I play.
So I sold the Madagascar rosewood dreadnought to a good friend who loves it, and we’re both happier. Wade Hampton Miller |
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#69
06-07-2020, 01:46 AM
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Quote:
https://www.dreamguitars.com/shop/in...g-guitars.html - listening to the videos. Recordings can give a misleading impression and they don’t tell your how the guitar feels, but it is still interesting listening to the different tones, especially if Al plays different guitars with the same piece of music. |
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#70
06-07-2020, 05:08 PM
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Rosewood is always a mixed bag - depends -
grading is confusing because sometimes a better grade is just prettier not better sounding - as well as a great piece of EIR can sound better than a poor piece of Brazilian rosewood . BUT all that being said -have a master luthier use Brazilian and the sky seems to open up -you will know the difference of why you paid more . If you put it on a standard production model - you probably wont notice the difference . Ill also say the right luthier can also get the most out of a great EIR piece- Ive got a great EIR guitar made by a great luthier that will knock off your socks as well - So -now i guess im totally confusing you !!!!!!!
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--------------------------------- Wood things with Strings ! 
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#71
06-07-2020, 11:22 PM
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Like many others here, I've played some Brazilian rosewood instruments that took my breath away... and I've played others that were noting I would want to own...
Once you get into hand built instruments, the BUILDER has far more to do with the sound than the woods he uses... if you don't know this, then you need to spend some time playing a bunch of small builders' instruments and discover for yourself. For instance, I've played dozens of James Goodall's guitars that absolutely took my breath away, and only one of those was a Brazilian rosewood back and sides instrument. Once you find a luthier whose work you truly love, then you're ready to talk woods, but I would always work with the builder to make those choices... There are far better choices out there than any of the "established" companies; Martin, Taylor or Gibson... a factory can't begin to even touch what a single or small builder can achieve; they just won't spend that kind of time on any one guitar... In the final analysis, I think Brazilian rosewood is far overrated, not to mention all the legal difficulties associated with making the guitar, traveling with the guitar, etc... doesn't mean you shouldn't want one or have one (or several), and that doesn't mean that I would never own a guitar with that wood... it's just not "all that and a bag of chips", as the saying goes...
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"Home is where I hang my hat, but home is so much more than that. Home is where the ones and the things I hold dear are near... And I always find my way back home." "Home" (working title) J.S, Sherman |
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#72
06-08-2020, 04:55 AM
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No way I can hear the difference between the spruce varieties on the tops of a guitar let alone rosewood varieties on the back and side of a guitar. (You could argue that Brazilian looks nicer though).
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#73
06-08-2020, 05:30 AM
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The BRW discussions can get silly fast. I’ve owned two guitars with it.
A Collings OM & Martin D28GE. Superb tone on both. For some, it can become a matter of concern over the straightest quartered old growth wood instead of the guitar & making music with it. It’s a deep rabbit hole. |
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#74
06-08-2020, 05:52 AM
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If you limit yourself to a particular choice of materials or maker you may never find "the one". There are fine guitars made by mediocre makers (they got lucky) and a few "duds" by well respected builders. An off brand factory instrument can sometimes be better than a custom built guitar. I like BRW, but it is not the only wood I've had good luck with. It smells nice when you sand it and it is pretty. People want it so it sells well. And you can "upcharge" considerably for it. From the standpoint of a builder those are good reasons to push it.
There are many other woods that are just as attractive that can sound equally nice or better. It all depends on the individual guitar, not the wood, not the maker, not the price you pay for it. Yes, there are some woods and makers that are better than others, but in the end it is the guitar and your perception of what is "best" that matters. Play as many guitars as you can, buy what you can afford, and improve your playing skills along the way. How much more admirable is it to be a good musician than to be a mediocre one with a good guitar. |
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#75
06-08-2020, 09:20 AM
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THIS^^^is perhaps the finest, most succinct post on this subject I have ever read. This IS the absolute truth...every word of it...BUT...especially these last lines: "There are many other woods that are just as attractive that can sound equally nice or better. It all depends on the individual guitar, not the wood, not the maker, not the price you pay for it. Yes, there are some woods and makers that are better than others, but in the end it is the guitar and your perception of what is "best" that matters. Play as many guitars as you can, buy what you can afford, and improve your playing skills along the way. How much more admirable is it to be a good musician than to be a mediocre one with a good guitar." Read...Learn...Live nuff said duff Be A Player...Not A Polisher |
. I look for a guitar that I can keep but not gonna lose too much value over time. Martin seems like a perfect selection for that reason. But I am looking more into guitars from luthiers like santa cruz, goodall, collings, Olson and that’s all the name I know of.
