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  #16  
Old 10-15-2020, 08:34 PM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike McLenison View Post
I gauge it to be .015" to .020" above the first fret.
This guitar must be a breeze to play. Your action is among some of the lowest I've heard. You must have gotten your frets really level. What is the benefit for you to use medium strings tune down a whole step that play like .011's vs playing with .011's at std pitch?

George
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  #17  
Old 10-16-2020, 01:29 AM
Mike McLenison Mike McLenison is offline
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Frets were perfectly Plek'd at the Martin Factory. In general, bigger strings = bigger sound and intonation is best to my ears. I especially like Pyramid round core Phos. Bronze. By the way, just added Mitchel's PlateMate and TiSonix titanium bridge pins. I like what I'm hearing.
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  #18  
Old 10-16-2020, 10:27 AM
EZYPIKINS EZYPIKINS is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgeG View Post
This guitar must be a breeze to play. Your action is among some of the lowest I've heard. You must have gotten your frets really level. What is the benefit for you to use medium strings tune down a whole step that play like .011's vs playing with .011's at std pitch?

George
Just wondering. Are you recording with the pickup? or a mic?

My action at 1st fret 1st string is .010" graduates to .015" at 6th
12th fret is .042" on 1st string and graduates to .052" at 6

And these guitars are a breeze.
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  #19  
Old 10-16-2020, 11:13 AM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike McLenison View Post
Frets were perfectly Plek'd at the Martin Factory. In general, bigger strings = bigger sound and intonation is best to my ears. I especially like Pyramid round core Phos. Bronze. By the way, just added Mitchel's PlateMate and TiSonix titanium bridge pins. I like what I'm hearing.
I'm going to try one of these plate mates. Thanks,

George
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  #20  
Old 10-16-2020, 11:15 AM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EZYPIKINS View Post
Just wondering. Are you recording with the pickup? or a mic?

My action at 1st fret 1st string is .010" graduates to .015" at 6th
12th fret is .042" on 1st string and graduates to .052" at 6

And these guitars are a breeze.
Recording with a mic but I also hear it directly while playing. That's some buttery action as well. While I'm working on all of this I need to lower my action. What is your neck relief measurement?

Thanks,

George
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  #21  
Old 02-24-2021, 08:56 AM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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Still struggling with this sitar buzzing problem. Checked or changed about a dozen things including everything suggested in this thread. Trying different types of strings helped some as did a new bridge saddle. I also found out that the problem is aggravated by tuning down a half step so for now I’m recording at std pitch and transposing in my recording software and notching out the remaining buzz. Out of frustration I’m also trying some new guitars but so far I have not found anything that I like.

About the only thing left and the latest candidate from my research is the nut slots. Not the depth but the width and shape. I found some discussions of my exact problem caused by improper vibration in a worn nut slot. I’m going to cut a new one with proper slots.

It looks like Martin uses micarta for its nuts. Have you guys tried anything else like bone and what did you think?

Also, regarding the action at the nut. Do you guys fret at the third fret and look for minimal clearance to the first fret or go for clearance above the first fret, unfretted? I’m out of clearance with the fretted technique but my open action at the nut is nowhere near as low as what you guys discuss here.

I have started lowering my action at the 12th fret with my new bridge saddle and I’m playing for a while at 7/64 - 5/64 before going to 6/64 - 4/64. This appears to be the range of the Martin factory spec. I started out at 8/64 - 6/64. My relief is now around 0.007”.


Thanks,


George
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  #22  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:00 AM
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rick-slo rick-slo is offline
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Not nut as you said occurs (even worse) when strings fretted.
Could be fret zing with too low action. See if noise goes away with soft picking.
Could be noise originating at saddle - say notch at the string saddle contact point.
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  #23  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:10 AM
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Sounds like you've checked most everything, but I didn't see back buzz mentioned. Have you checked for that?
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  #24  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:16 AM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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A new saddle helped but did not eliminate the problem. There are notches in the original saddle. I’m going to reshape the old one and see what we get. The B string still buzzes open. The nut slot is about 8 thou too wide and ragged looking. My action is still pretty high, 0.022” at the nut and all strings clear the first fret when fretted at the third. Checked all frets with a rocker. 12th string action is at the high end of the Martin factory spec. Slight relief.


George
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  #25  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:51 AM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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I have never owned a guitar this long so I have never faced these wear out issues. It’s been a real learning experience. A couple of good resources for anyone who gets here through searching:

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Luth.../buzzlist.html


http://www.lutherie.net/nuts.html


George
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  #26  
Old 02-24-2021, 10:59 AM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post
Sounds like you've checked most everything, but I didn't see back buzz mentioned. Have you checked for that?
I’ll check this out. Also since it’s better with lighter strings or tuned up I am going to add more relief even though I should be good.


George
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  #27  
Old 02-24-2021, 03:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevinH View Post
Sounds like you've checked most everything, but I didn't see back buzz mentioned. Have you checked for that?
Back buzz would be between fretted note and the nut. Not likely since same noise with open string. Also on guitars there often is a tiny bit
of ringing of a string between the nut and the string winder peg but that more like a harmonic sound rather than a buzz.
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  #28  
Old 03-09-2021, 02:06 PM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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The journey continues. Here is an update.

Buzzing can be broken down into a few categories:

1) Playing technique and style for a given set up.
2) Simple upkeep like tightening machine hardware.
3) Action/set up like nut height, relief, saddle height.
4) Neck/fret level.
5) Wear like frets, saddle and nut.
6) Structural problems like delaminating internal braces.

After checking most of the stuff on "the list", I have discovered several problems with my 25 year old Martin DM mostly related to age and wear:

My saddle had some grooves in it where the strings start to cut down into the saddle and start creating a flatter bearing point instead of the desired mostly peaky takeoff point. A flat bearing surface can mean sitar buzz. I have replaced the saddle with some improvement but this was not severe looking. I also wanted to try a compensated saddle and lower the action.

The nut slots for the most offensive strings are getting too wide from wear. The slots are supposed to be string width plus up to a few thou extra but not 2-3X like say my B string. Your strings are also supposed to be pretty high on the saddle grooves with larger strings poking up and small strings just all under the top plane. Mine are worn down to lower (but acceptable) action. The slots are supposed to slope down from the takeoff edge and have some bell shape as they leave towards the tuners. Mine violates a lot of these guidelines. The worst offender is the wide slots because that can also set up a sitar buzz.

Fret wear. I didn't get any significant fret rocker clues or adjacent buzzing when I fretted around but when I finally got a bright light and a magnifying glass (my eyesight is getting pretty bad), I was surprised to see so many flat spots in the first few sets of frets, some pretty flat and some worn down to 0.025" height, the minimum for most specs/posters. This of course can cause some fret buzzing but also that sitar thing again because the string is bearing down on a flat surface instead of a rounded take off point.

SO, in addition to the new saddle I am going to cut a new bone nut and do a fret job. I see that Martin used to use .080 x .037 frets (mine finished to .080 x .034) but have now gone to .080 x .043 on new guitars. What do you guys prefer?


George
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  #29  
Old 03-09-2021, 02:17 PM
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Since you seem to have covered all bases, let me throw out one more: any electronic components work loose? I had a wire from the bridgeplate to endpin jack fall out of its harness, and come to rest exactly where it needed to create a buzz.
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  #30  
Old 03-09-2021, 02:37 PM
GeorgeG GeorgeG is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dnf777 View Post
Since you seem to have covered all bases, let me throw out one more: any electronic components work loose? I had a wire from the bridgeplate to endpin jack fall out of its harness, and come to rest exactly where it needed to create a buzz.
Thanks for the suggestion but this guitar is all acoustic.


George
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