Talk about Brazilian Rosewood

[Tempotantrum]

Originally Posted by guitar george

"Planer marks" seems to be a popular cause?

https://www.woodworkingtalk.com/thre...d-grain.45808/

Definitely not planar marks - these are in the grain of the wood. This Collings is nearly 20 years old, so it is not a recent example (you have not been able to order a Collings with BRW for many years). It is also AAA grade. I think this set has fairly straight grain - I dont think it is stumpwood. Regardless, this OM42 with Adirondack (and 20 yrs) is amazing. It has a Rhodes organ type resonance to it. Is it the BRW? I think that has something to do with it. It just has something special going on.

[M Sarad]

I have three guitars of Brazilian. They have Sitka,Adirondack, and Euro Spruce tops. All sound different. Prices paid range from $500 to $5,000.
I purchased them in 1982, 1995,and 2002.

Replacement values range from 13-20 thousand.

[ericthronson]

91 % of all BRW trees cut down were for France's perfume industry !!!!
9 % went to furniture.
Only one in ten thousand trees went to instrument makers.

[Ed66]

Interesting stats you offer. I would like to think they are accurate, but, for the sake of really putting a nail in this coffin, can you reference your source?

[John Arnold]

The perfume story is disproven. This is the danger in relying on common names. The 'Brazilian rosewood' used to make perfume is a different, unrelated species (Aniba rosaeodora, AKA pau rosa). The wood from that 'rosewood' has little commercial value, and the trees grow in the Amazon rainforest. Brazilian rosewood (Dalbergia nigra) does not grow in the Amazon basin.

Those grain ripples are occasionally seen in several tropical hardwoods. I think they are too small to be pin knot shadows, and the overall straightness of grain and build date make me think it is not stumpwood.
Brazilian rosewood stumpwood cut for guitars came on the market around the year 2000, but it was a few years later before the more reputable makers started using it.

[gmel555]

The most expensive guitar -by far- I ever purchased was a special, ltd. run with Brazilian back and sides. I could not play before I ordered it (I know, I know), I needed to get on the list in advance. This was from a very well known luthier. While absolutely beautiful, it was the most disappointing guitar tone-wise I've ever purchased (my instructor agreed). After trying to love it for almost 2 years and hoping it would open up, I sold it and at least got my money out of it.

So my experience is even from a luthier with a reputation for building good/great guitars, buying Brazilian is no guarantee of excellence. Having several guitars I consider absolute delights to play and hear, I believe that while the b & s matter, in general, the top and bracing contribute more to the "secret sauce" than do the back and sides.

[terken]

One place I really like Brazilian is for bridges. I feel I can actually hear a difference there. It has pretty much replaced Ebony on most of my instruments.

[John Arnold]

IMHO, sonic effects of a bridge are mainly due to the weight and hardness. With that in mind, most any wood of similar density and hardness as Brazilian RW will sound similar.

[Erithon]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

More than likely, it is some figure in the wood, though I've not seen that before in Brazilian rosewood.

I'm really surprised by this. I seem to encounter it with some frequency. For example, this morning TNAG sent out an email featuring this 2020 Kraut MD:

And here is an M. F. Franks 00-12 I played for years:


All variations of the same figure in question, at least to my eyes.

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by Erithon

I'm really surprised by this. I seem to encounter it with some frequency.

Maybe you are right and I've seen it before. Not sure. I'd tend to dismiss it as its not an aesthetic I prefer.

[John Arnold]

For example, this morning TNAG sent out an email featuring this 2020 Kraut

The first photo shows pin knots and pin knot shadows. The second guitar has the grain curls and lengthwise grain curvature that are characteristic of Brazilian RW stumpwood. These are much larger than the ripples in Tempotantrum's Collings.

[Erithon]

Originally Posted by charles Tauber

Maybe you are right and I've seen it before. Not sure. I'd tend to dismiss it as its not an aesthetic I prefer.

Very understandable.

Originally Posted by John Arnold

The first photo shows pin knots and pin knot shadows. The second guitar has the grain curls and lengthwise grain curvature that are characteristic of Brazilian RW stumpwood. These are much larger than the ripples in Tempotantrum's Collings.

Thanks for sharing your expertise, John.

[pianissimo]

Originally Posted by John5

You sound like someone who wants the best, so you should only buy a Brazilian Rosewood Martin guitar, which I think you can only get through their custom shop. If you buy any other brand, such as a Taylor with Brazilian Rosewood, or Ervin Somogyi guitar with Brazilian Rosewood, you will always wish you had a Martin with Brazilian Rosewood. Make sure you tell the Martin custom shop you want their AAAA grade Brazilian Rosewood so you don't end up with their A grade Brazilian Rosewood, which won't sound as good (look up D-45 versus HD-28 threads on this forum, most people will agree that there is a clear difference in tone due to the higher grade of woods used on the higher end models).

This is one of the most hilarious posts I've ever read here.

[Bone0305]

Danny Farrington has moved back to Monroe, LA. I’ve had the honor of hanging out with him and he handed me a Adi/BRZ copy of a D45 he built. It is lighter than my Taylor 712 cutaway! I’d played Brazilian guitars before but this was AMAZING! I finally understood the “glassy” notes I’d read about and no matter how light or how hard you strummed it, it just said “bring it son I can take it!” He had another but it was heavier, good/great, but not like the first one. For reference I’ve played a Taylor and McPherson BRZ. The McPherson was Wes King’s. They were good but Danny’s was unreal. Play before you drop the serious cash it commands. Drew Heinonen is building me an Adi/Madi SJ to get close to brz but I realize it will not be the grade of BRZ of Danny’s dread. Good luck brother and may your hunt take to what ever magical wood gives you the tone I heard from that dread!

[rafal1995]

I have never had a chance to play many BRW instruments(only one jumbo guitar) but lot of chances to hear many other wood combination in guitars. One of the best jumbo I heard in person was African Blackwood one It was first time I heard of this species then.
Listening to recordings and comparisions on youtube you can hear that BRW has it's special properties(to me it sounds creaner for the lack of better term) but like it was pointed out supply is sparse nowadays and premium prices are prohibitive.

I don't know IF I would risk buying BRW guitar without playing it first considering $$$ involved.

I love how Keaggy's Cedar/BRW Olson sounds but even if I invested in buying one I don't know how to deal with CITIES and interational customs that are bound to pop out when shipping it to EU.

Even with so many builders I respect swearing by it legal concerns with shipping these instruments are another obstacle. I can't imagine heartache of getting Olson or Somogyi destroyed cuz of overzelaous officers.

After researching this topic for a while I think the best option is to go with alternatives proposed by experienced luthiers when instrument is ordered from another country. Ervin Somogyi proposes Wenge other builders cocolobo and osage orange. I'm sure that it will not sound like BRW since only BRW can sound like itself but maybe it can sound just as good with a good builder.

I hope my word vomit made sense from perspective of less experienced player