Stuck on Fingerstyle Progress

[AZ715]

I know exactly what you are going through, having been there myself about 2 years ago. I'd been fingerpicking patterns to folk songs 50 years ago, but let my playing fall by the wayside as I focused on my career. After retirement, I decided I'd like to learn to play fingerstyle, and set about doing that. I learned how to read tablature, collected some of those 60's, 70's songs in fingerstyle tab format, and though I'd be able to pick it up. It didn't go well. My fingers wanted to stick to the patterns I'd learned years previously, while the tabs directed me to play more freestyle - following the melody. Much frustration, as you know.

I think of it as akin to playing "rhythm," vs "lead." Fingerpicking patterns is similar to rhythm, but fingerstyle melody wants to be played by lead. Most of us started off learning patterns, but when we progress to fingerstyle we have to unlearn them, i.e., develop finger independence.

Don't think there is a formula that will work for everybody, but here is what worked for me. I signed up for Dan Holloway's online fingerstyle course and continued with it for a year and a half. It wasn't easy. Early on, I wrote to Dan and asked him if he had any advice for learning finger independence, and he wrote "to just stick with it." I was hoping for more!

But, I did stick with it, and within about 3 months I found myself able to play more freestyle. Now, I can play patterns if I wish, but they no longer interfere with my playing "lead."

I'd encourage you to certainly stick with it, and maybe try something along the lines of what I did. Not giving up is most of the battle.

[Frostie]

Originally Posted by M Hayden

Maybe try some melodies instead. I have a friend who had the same issues - about your age, too - and I had him go back to basics, like playing “Mary Had a little Lamb” and finding the melody while playing an alternating bass, and working from there.

It sounds silly but he developed facility with finding melodies over alternating-bass, and his grandkids were only too happy to help him with the melodies....

OK, this might sound dumb, but here goes ... I read that the first song Peter Paul & Mary ever sang together, for their producer, was Mary Had A Little Lamb - his idea being, “You know this song, let’s see what you can do with it.” As a learning strategy, It’s nothing short of brilliant, imo.

[fwellers]

Originally Posted by JAMKC

Ok, here goes. Been trying to pick up fingerpicking, primarily Travis style, for nearly two years. I can play a simple, repeating 6/3/4/2 or 5/3/4/2 across a lot of chords. Can do a fair 6/2/4/3 as well. However, as soon as a pattern changes it all comes crashing down. Really have worked on some books but just cannot develop any fluidity when it is a non-repeating pattern. Really coming to the point where,I think it is the late start at 63 combined with reduced mental acuity... just cannot link up the right hand, left hand, and the eyes in looking at a tab. Have ground away on Freight Train and Ol Susanna without ever getting them down.

So, trying to decide whether I throw in the towel and just strum away. Thinking some basic flat picking might add some color to what I play and might be easier as you are dealing more with a single string/pick rather than several strings and fingers nearly simultaneously.

All thoughts welcome, advice on a video series I might try before surrendering, etc.? I have down a few online Skype lessons and just did not gain much in trying to watch real time what the instructor was doing and replicating it.

Thanks everyone!

My situation is close to yours.I'm 61 and relatively new at guitar. Been floundering learning on Youtube but never really feeling it. So I recently started taking lessons from a local guy who can play and teach country blues.
He started me back at near the beginning, with this book. It's one of the books he used when he was getting back into the guitar and learning the country blues genre.

https://www.amazon.com/Beginning-Fin...35684260&psc=1

I'm so happy he did. The book is designed to just get those finger mechanics down and in a pleasant way. The songs are so well designed to do just that and enjoy the practicing.
My instructor insisted that I learn as the book describes, using all three fingers for the 1st 2nd 3rd string and I am glad he did because especially for us older memory challenged folks, once you get the muscle memory down, there's actually less to remember this way.
Also, not sure if the book says it, but for the stuff in this book, palm mute everything.

I'm finally having real fun getting fundamentals down and feel like I am heading in the right direction with my guitar practice.

My best advice is to get an instructor that can teach country blues, one that you feel good about, and one that will take you to the fundamentals such as this book.

[rwhitney]

I don't know how you practice, but one thing I know about practice is that it's not much good just to go over and over a thing making the same mistakes all the time. Much more efficient to actually think about the specific problem in detail: e.g., my ring finger gets tripped up on the E on the 2nd fret of the 4th string after I change from the F chord. (To fix this) I need to move that finger a little further when I change from the F chord. Same thing for left hand stuff, make sure you register consciously what finger is missing what when, then practice that little bit very slowly until you get it; then gradually speed up and incorporate it into the longer phrase. This goes for any type of practicing: zoom in, concentrate and register the exact problem consciously, slow everything down (problems usually occur where there's a change of some sort) until you can do it consistently at the slow speed, then gradually get up to tempo and during the course of larger sections. This is usually the way classical musicians learn to practice, but sometimes we self learners waste a lot of time just endlessly repeating to no effect.

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by JAMKC

Oh I have it. It’s well done but just can’t get any fluidity. Can pick the lesson patterns fairly well but when I go to the songs to play, 🤯.

Just a few thoughts pertaining to working through Mark Hanson’s Contemporary Travis Picking.

Can you play the lesson patterns you take on in time consistently and accurately (this means right to a metronome beat)?

When I worked through this book, I downloaded all of the slow/practice performance audio files that come with it and imported them into the Amazing Slow Downer app I have on my iPad (ASD can be downloaded to a PC also). I could then play along at any speed I wanted and I could also isolate a specific section I had difficulty with.

For sure I would recommend to break each song in the book into sections and work on a section at a time. Any measure/measures that give you problems, isolate and play as slowly as needed to figure out left and right hand (Mark suggests in the book the fingerings in just about each song and exercise as I recall).

I have Mark as a Skype teacher and worked through both Contemporary Travis Picking and Art of Solo Fingerstyle. Breaking any song down into workable sections and really isolating and mastering the most difficult sections has carried forward in helping learn songs quicker and with a lot less frustration. Makes it a more satisfying experience for both the teacher and the student.

Hope this helps.

[JAMKC]

To all, a bunch of great advice and ideas above. This has me reconsidering waving the white flag.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by JAMKC

Oh I have it. It’s well done but just can’t get any fluidity. Can pick the lesson patterns fairly well but when I go to the songs to play, 🤯.

Then you are trying to go too fast at first. Sloooooowwww motion at first.

[JAMKC]

Originally Posted by SprintBob

Just a few thoughts pertaining to working through Mark Hanson’s Contemporary Travis Picking.



Can you play the lesson patterns you take on in time consistently and accurately (this means right to a metronome beat)?



When I worked through this book, I downloaded all of the slow/practice performance audio files that come with it and imported them into the Amazing Slow Downer app I have on my iPad (ASD can be downloaded to a PC also). I could then play along at any speed I wanted and I could also isolate a specific section I had difficulty with.



For sure I would recommend to break each song in the book into sections and work on a section at a time. Any measure/measures that give you problems, isolate and play as slowly as needed to figure out left and right hand (Mark suggests in the book the fingerings in just about each song and exercise as I recall).



I have Mark as a Skype teacher and worked through both Contemporary Travis Picking and Art of Solo Fingerstyle. Breaking any song down into workable sections and really isolating and mastering the most difficult sections has carried forward in helping learn songs quicker and with a lot less frustration. Makes it a more satisfying experience for both the teacher and the student.



Hope this helps.

Bob, no I can’t play them to a metronome spot on. As mentioned, it’s frustrating but they just don’t become locked in in my head. Thus I bump around over and over just not moving forward. I’m old man! [emoji4]

[SprintBob]

Originally Posted by JAMKC

Bob, no I can’t play them to a metronome spot on. As mentioned, it’s frustrating but they just don’t become locked in in my head. Thus I bump around over and over just not moving forward. I’m old man! [emoji4]

I have a friend a bit older than you and he tells me of same issues. When I have the opportunity to play with him, he plays with no metronome and waaay too fast. Just keeps reinforcing the mistakes.

Play as slow as needed to be able to play accurately and then you will be teaching yourself good habits. I think Barry diagnosed your issue.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by JAMKC

Bob, no I can’t play them to a metronome spot on. As mentioned, it’s frustrating but they just don’t become locked in in my head. Thus I bump around over and over just not moving forward. I’m old man! [emoji4]

I'm 64.5, we're all old, lol.

[rick-slo]

I suggest when learning something new to vary the practice tempo. Don't simply go dead slow, a bit faster, a bit faster, a bit faster.
Mixing in more up tempo practice helps establish the feel of flow, connects the phrases in a more connected, expressive way, and aids
the memory and helps avoid playing and partly memorizing fingering, etc. that turns out not to work out up to speed. Experiment.

[JonPR]

Originally Posted by TBman

I'm 64.5, we're all old, lol.

Sheesh, you youngsters. I'm 70.25

[srick]

I'm late to the party, but here are my few cents:

1) It's all about the rhythm: Using your thumb only, work on a steady dum - dum- dum bass line - one string first, then alternating bass. Work up to speed and simply play that bass part on every fingerpicking song you want to practice. Remember to breathe. Keep at it, keep at it, keep at it. Ignore the urge to play the melody. Keep playing the bass line. Listen for that bass line. Get into that bass line. Tap your feet in time too.

2) Add in the melody notes gradually. use the index or middle to start. You can pinch on the beat and then gradually add in notes off the beat. Sprinkle in a few at a time as you play along with recordings, but concentrate on the bass line.

3) It really helps to find a good teacher to practice with. being in the same room with someone makes a world of difference.

4) the syncopation screws everyone up. We love syncopation - it's what makes this music sound so good, but darn, it's hard to master.

5) IMO - it's also about 'tuning' your ears. Once you can get them to really hear that bass line, the system becomes self-correcting. And once you get the bass line down, you can gradually get the melody added in.

Keep at it and you will get there.

PS - another old man here (66). I didn't start guitar until my mid-50's. I've been working on my fingerstyle for probably the last 7 years - still have a ways to go.

[TBman]

Originally Posted by JonPR

Sheesh, you youngsters. I'm 70.25

Show off,

[reeve21]

Originally Posted by JAMKC

To all, a bunch of great advice and ideas above. This has me reconsidering waving the white flag.

Here is a good lesson on Travis picking that Glennwillow posted over the weekend. You can slow it down on YouTube. I think this will help!

https://www.acousticguitarforum.com/...d.php?t=561864