The difference between being a music box and understanding the guitar.

[gerardo1000]

Thi is my frustration: at the age of 67, after many years of playing the acoustic guitar finger style, self-teaching myself, I feel that I am just a music box. If I like an acoustic guitar song, I find the tablature or look for a lesson on youtube, and memorize the notes, the chords etc.. until I manage to "reproduce" as best as I can the music. But I do not understand what I am doing. I do not understand the fretboard, and why in order to play that kind of music you have to play that note, that chord, etc.... for example, if I have a music in mind, I have no idea of how to play it on my guitar.
I wonder if you have any suggestion of lessons, tutorials, videos, books that can help me not just to learn a piece, but to understand the guitar?
Thank you !

[Monsoon1]

Unfortunately all it takes is practice. And over time you will get better at finding those notes on the fretboard that you have been hearing in your head

[Rev Roy]

Tony P’s ‘Fretboard Wizard” course is really good. At least it was for me. It’s basic, guitar-specific music theory taught in a way that makes it easy to understand. Lots of handouts/cheat sheets you can keep for future ref.

Here’s a vid of Tony giving some very basic stuff. Gives you a flavor of his teaching style...

[mr. beaumont]

Three things:

Fretboard knowledge
Know the major scales
Know how to "spell" chords using those major scales.

You could have all the "theory" you need down cold in 3 months, if you work a bit every day.

[sevargnhoj]

I'm a rote guitarist myself (45 years). I've never been able to engage an interest in learning theory and ear training (although I can follow simple progressions and figure out passages with some effort).

I pick songs that speak to me. I pick songs that use a technique I want to learn. I pick songs that I can take in different directions from the original artist. For me there has to be a fun factor involved (same thing with my exercise regimen; if it's not fun, I'm not doing it much).

Then I try to get the best sound to come out of my music box that I can (lots of wood shedding, years on some songs before I'm satisfied).

It would be nice to have the technical vocabulary, but I get plenty of satisfaction developing and using the tools I have at hand with the amount of effort I'm willing to put in.

[Neil K Walk]

I can commiserate completely, but I'd like to put a positive spin on the whole "jukebox" effect.

The really frustrating thing about learning "new" songs is that you begin to realize that it's all be done before and that they differences are merely nuances in technique; you're "sessioning" and not really playing; it's more work and not really enjoyable and expressive.

It's at that point where you should begin to realize that what you're really struggling for is to replicate someone else's technique and take on their own musical identity. To me it's like hitting "musical puberty." At that point, you shouldn't worry about it but instead "let go."

Don't get me wrong, it's not a bad thing to have heroes who inspire you but at some point you have to turn off your ears and follow your gut. What has stuck with you will continue to come out in your playing but what you should be chasing is continuity and not stopping to master a passage. Some would call this "finding the groove."

Eventually you'll find that this homogenous quality of many songs can be a benefit and with practice you can stitch songs together into a sort of medley - and maybe even sprinkle a little of "yourself" in there too.

[The Bard Rocks]

Gerardo, I think it's time for some lessons. It won't take many of them to allow you to kick yourself to the next level. You've already got a good start but you need some gaps filled in.

[Atomnimity]

Originally Posted by gerardo1000

Thi is my frustration: at the age of 67, after many years of playing the acoustic guitar finger style, self-teaching myself, I feel that I am just a music box. If I like an acoustic guitar song, I find the tablature or look for a lesson on youtube, and memorize the notes, the chords etc.. until I manage to "reproduce" as best as I can the music. But I do not understand what I am doing. I do not understand the fretboard, and why in order to play that kind of music you have to play that note, that chord, etc.... for example, if I have a music in mind, I have no idea of how to play it on my guitar.
I wonder if you have any suggestion of lessons, tutorials, videos, books that can help me not just to learn a piece, but to understand the guitar?
Thank you !

I feel the same way after not playing for 50 years and picking it back up a couple of months ago. I will be 69 in a few months. I decided to take some guitar lessons. I start next Tuesday with Annel.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WCktH0pwVvA

[mawmow]

Well, once again, we kind of row the same boat, and we are a lot of them.

I read and learned much about musical theory during the last ten years... but I was a total rhythm nut ! I had never understood how to work with a metronome.
So, I took private lessons : I learned reading rhythm on the staff (tabs are of no use here !) and became able to follow the rhythm while tapping my foot.

My teacher wants me to bring a song or piece I want to work and helps with reading as well as performing.

I also wanted to play acoustic blues : he helped understand how pentatonic scales would help me as well as rhythm.

Yes ! At some moment, we need to personnally follow a master...

[charles Tauber]

Originally Posted by gerardo1000

I wonder if you have any suggestion of lessons, tutorials, videos, books that can help me not just to learn a piece, but to understand the guitar?

The crux of the issue is that most guitarists want to learn to play the guitar (i.e. "understand the guitar"). That is somewhat different than wanting to learn to play music (i.e. "understand music"). The guitar is to a musician what a typewriter is to an author - or a paint brush to an artist. The guitar is a vehicle for making music, just as the typewriter is a vehicle for the author to put down words on paper: the guitar doesn't make music anymore than a typewriter writes. Being aware of that distinction is critical, in my opinion and experience, to progress: it changes ones focus of attention.

If one wants to understand music, one cannot avoid basic theory. Introductory music theory is, largely, memorization of definitions. It is relatively mathematical and straightforward if learned progressively. There are many, many, many resources on basic music theory. The simplest, most cut-and-dried is, perhaps, a small book called The Basis of Music by Horwood. It has been around for decades. It is instrument-non-specific.

Learning music, as opposed to how to play the guitar, is made much easier if one bites the bullet and simply learns to read sheet music in standard notation. That's how most musicians and composers communicate and is nearly universal: guitar tablature is specific to the guitar and is unintelligible to anyone but a guitarist. For example, hand a piece of guitar tablature to a piano player, and they'll just hand it back to you: it has no meaning to them. .

Music starts with what one hears in one's head. Basic music theory helps one to identify what one hears so that one can translate that to one's chosen instrument (vehicle). Practical considerations ("technique") are learned on one's chosen instrument to assist in translating what one hears to what comes out of one's instrument. For example, if one knows that a C major scale is the notes C, D, E, F, G, A and B, one learns where those notes are on one's instrument, in this case the guitar's fingerboard. If one knows that a C major triad is comprised of the notes C, E and G, once one knows where the notes C, E and G can be found on the fingerboard, one knows all of the places - over the entire fingerboard, where one can play those notes, and in all of the possible fingerings. ("Chord books" are then unnecessary.)

It takes work to understand music and to play music, two separate activities. How much work one wants to put into either (or both) of these varies with the individual. What one expects from the sounds coming out of one's instrument dictates, in part, how much knowledge and ability one needs to achieve that.

Starting with basic music theory, one quickly identifies what one needs to know, practically, on one's chosen instrument. For example, scales are a group of named notes. Where on the fingerboard are those notes found? What fingerings can be used to play that sequence of notes? Can those fingerings be repeated for different keys? And so on.

There really aren't any shortcuts. It takes a continued effort over a period of time. And, it requires working progressively. One can't understand chords until one understands triads; one can't understand triads until one understands intervals; one can't understand the movement of chords - why one chord comes after another (the study of "harmony") without understanding scales, keys and "degrees". Start at the beginning and work through it progressively. People have been doing that for centuries: there is a tried and true method of doing so. One simply needs to follow the method, as many have done before.

[rick-slo]

Listening, analyzing, incorporating is the start of getting the overall feel of what you are doing. The bigger picture of song
structure (chord progressions, songs sections (e.g. AA"BA), variations, etc.) rather than just memorizing scales or individual
chord shapes gives a bigger concept of what is going on. Perhaps read articles about how to compose music will be useful.

[zmf]

Originally Posted by gerardo1000

I wonder if you have any suggestion of lessons, tutorials, videos, books that can help me not just to learn a piece, but to understand the guitar?

I'm lazy, so I had to stumble into gaining a better grasp of the fretboard.

One relatively painless way I found was to buy blues lesson DVD's from the usual suspects. If you like playing the blues, a good lesson will show a lot of partial chords that look unfamiliar, but are movable chords that you already know.

In other words, you can reverse-engineer how the old blues players worked out how a keep a bass note available while working through a mid/treble line.

I found that every time I grabbed a couple of notes somewhere up the fretboard, I'd simply ask "why am I playing these notes?"

Anyway -- it's a fun way to get a better understanding.

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by gerardo1000

Thi is my frustration: at the age of 67, after many years of playing the acoustic guitar finger style, self-teaching myself, I feel that I am just a music box. If I like an acoustic guitar song, I find the tablature or look for a lesson on youtube, and memorize the notes, the chords etc.. until I manage to "reproduce" as best as I can the music. But I do not understand what I am doing. I do not understand the fretboard, and why in order to play that kind of music you have to play that note, that chord, etc.... for example, if I have a music in mind, I have no idea of how to play it on my guitar.
I wonder if you have any suggestion of lessons, tutorials, videos, books that can help me not just to learn a piece, but to understand the guitar?
Thank you !

Hi gerardo

I have a degree in music and taught guitar locally for 40+ years. My observations are, people with zero knowledge of music and the fretboard enjoy music as much (if not more) than the 'educated' ones.

I'm not against people understanding and even applying theory, but it's sure not going to enhance the enjoyment for most players.

During lessons I taught scales, chord building, inversions, alternate tuning, etc. But we learned those things gradually over months/years, not in days, and certainly never from reading a book or watching a DVD once.

YouTube is your friend, and JustinGuitar is probably the most popular YouTube channel people go to for learning basics and beyond. He has nearly 1 million subscribers (in March 2019) for a reason.

Age 67 you have plenty of time to enjoy your guitars and playing music.

When I set out to master theory (it was a minor in college), I spent 5 years in theory classes and still didn't know it all. And that was 3 classroom days a week, with homework accompanying and proficient and knowledgeable teachers.

Hope you find what you need, and enjoy playing for years more!!!

[Pnewsom]

If you want to step away from regurgitation, write a song. Anyway you want it, simple or complex, great or not so great.

There are no wrong answers, or songs.

[bluesfreek]

Originally Posted by mr. beaumont

Three things:

Fretboard knowledge
Know the major scales
Know how to "spell" chords using those major scales.

You could have all the "theory" you need down cold in 3 months, if you work a bit every day.

Bingo! If you want to improvise these three tips are important. Especially the first one. Of course once you "get it"... it does become easier and even more entertaining. Most all have fun experimenting!