Does better tone come from better build quality?

[musicman1951]

Originally Posted by highvibrational

Thank you for your thoughts. I find that I'm having a lot of conflicting feelings about acquiring a higher end guitar for the following reasons:

-I'm not certain that the paying more money means I'll get a better sounding instrument
-I'm not sure if as a singer/songwriter, it will really matter what I'm playing as long as it goes with my voice
-Since I don't want to pay retail, buying online seems like shooting in the dark
-I love my guitars but I am seduced by the beauty and legendary status of the Martin D-28 (and other Martins in particular), but don't know if I'll really play the guitar in the same way as my beaters. It could possibly remain a closet queen.
-Do I want a D or an OOO or OM? Mahogany or Rosewood?
-Is GAS something one should give in to?

Simply too many questions. So, I'll sit and wait until I get a green light on something, or nothing.

I've always thought it was crazy to spend money for sound you can't hear or appreciate. If your happy with your current instrument by all means play that. If someday your ear tells you it likes something else better you can wrestle with the financial decisions at that time.

GAS is real, but it can eat you alive. I don't purchase another guitar until I reach the point where I can't not purchase one. You're not there. Yet.

[FrankHudson]

Originally Posted by highvibrational

It has just occurred to me that I've been equating higher prices with better tone. Now that I realize that one may have little to do with the other, I feel like I've been freed from something. All of my guitars sound great (especially my Martins) and $400 is the maximum price I paid.

There's a general tendency to conflate rare or highly crafted with precious with best. But of course they are different things. I appreciate fine craftsmanship and I've always had a soft-spot for innovative and experimental technology. I'd suppose if I was wealthy I'd enjoy commissioning dozens of builds with skilled luthiers. I want to try combinations of their best and unusual ideas along with some odd-ball ideas I have.

Would all, or even most of those builds, win a shootout poll (even here) as sounding the best compared to factory production models? And we're all self-selected guitar and guitar music enthusiasts.

But I'm not a wealthy guy. Instead I've got a bunch of fairly inexpensive guitars, most bought used. I like making music with them. I like that they sound a bit different from each other. Tone/timbre is subjective anyway. Some days I'm looking more for one thing than another.


Probably more than 99% of the enjoyment we get from hearing music that we make or others make in in the elements of music that have nothing to do with the timbral subtilties between one builder and another. It's nutty or fun or exacting to obsess about that less than 1%.

[hbg]

Originally Posted by highvibrational

-I'm not certain that the paying more money means I'll get a better sounding instrument

Even if you do get a better sounding instrument, it's not necessarily a direct relationship to the increase in price. You could spend 10 times as much and get something that only sounds a little bit better.

[Glennwillow]

In general, the more money I have paid for my guitars, the better they sound. I wouldn't have spent the money if they weren't an improvement to what I already had.

What sounds good to you may be quite a bit different from what sounds good to me, however. If you are happy, that's what matters for you.

I am also happy, but I have spent way more than $400 on any one of my guitars.

Our individual mileage may vary all over the place.

- Glenn

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by highvibrational

It has just occurred to me that I've been equating higher prices with better tone.

Correlation is not the same as causation. But it is a good way to bet...

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by hbg

Even if you do get a better sounding instrument, it's not necessarily a direct relationship to the increase in price. You could spend 10 times as much and get something that only sounds a little bit better.

Absolutely. In many aspects of life there are diminishing returns. The difference in tone and playability between a $100 guitar and a $500 guitar can be distinguished by most players. The difference in tone and playability between a $500 guitar and a $1000 guitar can be a little more subtle. The more you jump ($5000, $10,000 and up) the less you gain per dollar.

[guitar george]

There might even be negative returns. The $500.00 guitar might sound better than the $5,000.00 guitar to some people. You are not guaranteed any increase in sound quality simply by paying more money. There is always someone who will state that their $200.00 beater sounds better than any other guitar in the world. Usually the more expensive guitars do sound better to most people.

[tadol]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Absolutely. In many aspects of life there are diminishing returns. The difference in tone and playability between a $100 guitar and a $500 guitar can be distinguished by most players. The difference in tone and playability between a $500 guitar and a $1000 guitar can be a little more subtle. The more you jump ($5000, $10,000 and up) the less you gain per dollar.

I’m gonna have to disagree pretty strongly with this - to me, there are alot of differences between one $100 guitar and another, but they aren’t that different from a $500 guitar, and while you “might” find a good one if you go thru enough of them, its gonna be mostly luck. You get up to $1000, or maybe $2500, and you start to really hear and feel differences, but by and large, they’re gonna be much better instruments. Now, you get up to $5000, or $10,000, or more, you’re starting to get into an area where theres gotta be something serious to warrant that kind of money. Now, that serious could be collectability (brand, age, model, scarcity), or it could be materials (exotic, rare, desirability) or it could be some design feature (diamond inlays, custom shaping or design, electronics, limited model maybe) -

But once you get to the $5,000 and up area, you start to get into some really well (hand) made instruments, and if you ignore the collectables, exotic/unusual woods, and excessive decoration, then the build quality and tone and playability are all that matter, and you can really get into the finer aspects of the guitar as an acoustic instrument.

There are lots of good reasons to buy $100 guitars, but thinking that a couple hundred more is gonna get you a dramatically better instrument is not realistic. But at the same time, thinking there aren’t some really huge differences between a $5000 and $10,000 guitar is not very accurate either.

What I can completely agree with is that while there is no direct connection between price and quality (as an instrument), I think there is still the possibility of a lot of indirect connection -

[handers]

Originally Posted by highvibrational

It has just occurred to me that I've been equating higher prices with better tone. Now that I realize that one may have little to do with the other, I feel like I've been freed from something. All of my guitars sound great (especially my Martins) and $400 is the maximum price I paid.

I just spoke with a Martin customer service person who said that he knows of many who feel their lower-priced guitars sound better than those that are much more expensive.

I'd love to hear your thoughts on this.

How many handmade guitars have you played? Froggy Bottom, Collings, Lowden, Tippin, Blanchard, Traugott, so many more, offer something different than the guitars you may have. I won't say better, just different. Until you play these, you may not have a sense of that. Also, different playing styles are facilitated by different guitar voices. All of the ones I mentioned have very different voices.

I don't agree that lower-priced guitars routinely sound better than high-priced (this gets defined differently by every player) handmade guitars. But all that matters is how your guitars sound to you. Don't worry about other guitars or other players.

Hans

[handers]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Absolutely. In many aspects of life there are diminishing returns. The difference in tone and playability between a $100 guitar and a $500 guitar can be distinguished by most players. The difference in tone and playability between a $500 guitar and a $1000 guitar can be a little more subtle. The more you jump ($5000, $10,000 and up) the less you gain per dollar.

That has not been my experience. I've played a hundred or more guitars, usually handmade, in the over $5000 category. They are very different to my playing. For me it is exciting to hear the vast differences between the voices of these guitars. In my experience the difference between most $5000-30,000 guitars is huge, bigger than the differences in $100-500. I have preferences but that doesn't mean one is better than another in the higher end. It's just what you like.

hans

[J Patrick]

...there needs to be a clear line drawn between what an individual is wanting or liking to hear from a guitar and what is a better sounding guitar....what a person wants/likes to hear is of course subjective and cannot be objectified....what sounds better can be objectified in terms of resonance, richness, note to note separation, sustain, volume.. etc....the descriptors are hard to settle on without some depth of experience and knowledge...

...with regards to really high end instruments, the folks that have that experience and knowledge are a distinct minority ...(playing an instrument in a shop once does not really qualify as experience)...most of us have a set price range that we can afford and so our experience with the full range of build quality is limited...

...my personal experience goes about half way up the ladder...(4-7000 dollar instruments of which I have owned a fair number)...that said I can unequivocally say that the more I paid...objectively speaking... the better the build quality and the better the tone of the instrument...I have to believe that if I was able or willing to pay more I would get better quality and tone...exceptions to the rule occur to be sure...but thats not the point of the discussion...

[AndrewG]

Originally Posted by Goodallboy

As long as you think your guitar sounds great, that's all that matters, period.

Don't fall into the notion that a $400 guitar sounds as good as a high end boutique guitar to most people, because it doesn't, and to reiterate, that shouldn't matter one twit to you as long as you think your guitar sounds great.

That said there is no guarantee that a high-end guitar is going to sound great either. I've owned enough to know.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by AndrewG

That said there is no guarantee that a high-end guitar is going to sound great either. I've owned enough to know.

Of course not. Particularly given an individuals style of playing and/or their ears. But generally, more often than not, it is true. Else I (and others) would not spend the money.

[Mandobart]

Originally Posted by Mycroft

....Else I (and others) would not spend the money.

Well.....for the majority of us, guitars are a hobby. A somewhat expensive, technical and gear-oriented hobby. Like photography, fishing, skiing, wood working, etc. we can focus on the gear. And the "experts" in any of these fields are the arbiters of what the "best" gear is. Many people in all these pursuits (guitars included) jump in and buy the "best" based primarily on recommendations from "experts." So you may very well spend your money on high end guitars based solely on your assessment of their performance as compared to the competition. I have seen multiple examples of others who, lacking experience and discernment, plunk down their money simply to obtain the gear the "experts" have granted their approval to. I've known people in many pursuits who compensate for a lack of skill with lots of the "best" equipment they can purchase. "Popular" does not necessarily equate to the "best." Neither does a high price tag, exotic materials or intricate binding/inlay.

[Mycroft]

Originally Posted by Mandobart

Well.....for the majority of us, guitars are a hobby. A somewhat expensive, technical and gear-oriented hobby. Like photography, fishing, skiing, wood working, etc. we can focus on the gear. And the "experts" in any of these fields are the arbiters of what the "best" gear is. Many people in all these pursuits (guitars included) jump in and buy the "best" based primarily on recommendations from "experts." So you may very well spend your money on high end guitars based solely on your assessment of their performance as compared to the competition. I have seen multiple examples of others who, lacking experience and discernment, plunk down their money simply to obtain the gear the "experts" have granted their approval to. I've known people in many pursuits who compensate for a lack of skill with lots of the "best" equipment they can purchase. "Popular" does not necessarily equate to the "best." Neither does a high price tag, exotic materials or intricate binding/inlay.

I was only speaking for myself. You should try it sometime.