neck width has nothing to do with hand size!

[ljguitar]

hi all…
I've taught guitar for over 40 years locally, and posture, hand angle, and how the guitar's body is positioned (when in sitting or standing positions) is critical to how well the hands work with different neck profiles. Posture and angles also dictate how well certain guitar body sizes work.

In addition, the style of music one plays helps dictate which neck one may want. Flat pickers prefer 1¹¹/₁₆" nut, and Fingerstyle players often prefer at least a 1¾" nut, and some want a wider saddle by ⅛".

There's nothing set in concrete, and the determination of a player can make all the difference in the world. One of my best students I ever taught has the smallest hands I've ever seen on a player. She plays a 1¾" nut on her main guitars, and 1⅞" nut on her college guitar (D-35 Slot head, 12 fret, slope shoulder).

She learned guitar as a classical player with a full 2" nut. I've never heard her wish for bigger hands, or complain about chords we were designing which were challenging. In fact she seems to welcome challenges.

[zabdart]

Originally Posted by patticake

i keep reading threads here and elsewhere where people feel they should get a narrower neck because they have small hands. a lot of them don't find wider necks uncomfortable, or don't even know the nut size on their current guitar.

so for the record, folks, i am a 5' 3" female with normal hands for my height. that means i have small hands. i not only dislike playing narrower necks or very shallow necks, but they hurt my hands and wrists. i am very comfortable playing for hours on a guitar with a 1 3/4 or 1 7/8 nut, and if only seagull put that original s6 neck on a parlor, my life would be very happy indeed.

there's more to neck size than hand size. in fact i played a standard sized classical when i was 5' even, and i had no problem. neck angle, profile, depth and shape and radius affect my playing, but for a neck to be too wide for me, it would have to be pretty darn wide. your posture, the shape of your hands, that has a lot more to do with it than hand size. i promise.

thanks for letting me get that off my chest

Everybody's different, Patti. Some find narrow necks easier and more comfortable to play and some don't. One size does not fit all.

[BluesCam]

I have three dreadnoughts and the best sounding one (Breedlove Stage Dreadnought) is the hardest to play. The nut width is 1-11/16" but it is the chunkiness that is the problem. My other two are easier to play in the first position and this frustrates me. I have small hands and I have recent neuro damage to my arms and hands, which makes them a bit clunky, so, having a neck that is difficult to work with is very trying. I would sell it, but it sounds soooo... much better than my cheaper dreds.

[bitraker]

neck width has nothing to do with hand size!

if that were the case, then there would be one universal neck size (one size fits all)

sorry but that assertion doesn't pass the smell test...

[Mak]

When I was a kid, learning on the Chris guitar in my sig, the open A chord convinced me I wasn't good enough to be a "real" guitar player. The books and my teacher all showed two fingerings: index on the 4th string, or for barre form A, using second finger there - or using index across second fret, with barre A form using ring finger. I couldn't do it. I was never told I could leave the high E deadened. I thought that was wrong. I had to play an A chord with a barred E form, which doesn't sound open at all. Nor was I told I could finger the open A with my index on the third string, second finger on the fourth, which doesn't require the fingers alined, but staggered. Nut width and string spacing (and ignorance of alternative fingerings) discouraged me. On my Gibson electrics, I still need to use my alternative fingering for open A or allow a deadened high E, but with the 1-3/4" nut (and longer scaled) Martin, I can play open A using index on the fourth string. So nut width has very practical consequences for me.

It's strange that my fingering of open A was never shown in my books, since it allows for a very smooth transition to open E or open D. The index finger stays on the third string.

[Pitar]

A narrow width can become a problem when the hand is all scrunched up to the extent where it cramps up after an hour of play. Carpal Tunnel Syndrome affects people who use tools that require continuous closing and opening of the hand. Guitar playing is one. Hair cutter is another. Duct fabricators suffer hand fatigue as well. The hands are taken for granted that they will do what we expect them to do with little-no thought of ergonomics.

If the tool handle has a medium to large girth the hand does not have to close down as much and, accordingly, does less work.

Some people have short fingers and large palms. The reverse is also true. Fingertip widths vary as well. This is why it's so important to end up with a guitar that has the right fit. It won't be something a person establishes going in (noob) but eventually it will make a case for itself and the right fit will be sought/bought.

[WaltH]

I've read through all of the posts in this thread and picked up some interesting tidbits and information, though I'm not sure it helps me (much like the 2015 poster who talked about all of the research done, forums visited, etc.).

I get that it's important to play and handle a guitar. I get that a person may buy several guitars before finding "the one." That may not be an option for everyone. What then?

My particular case: I'm 60 years young and last fall finally decided to try and learn to play the Seagull S6 I bought in 1992. (I write lyrics and have melodies trapped in my head, so I thought I ought to learn so I can arrange and perform my songs rather than put all of the load on my wife, who isn't able to keep up with my output.) The problem is that, after 30 to 45 minutes of practicing, my fret hand begins to tire, and my thumb on that hand begins to hurt at the base. I've had the action adjusted and readjusted and then checked by another shop, and it hasn't seemed to help. I'm just not sure what to do.

While I am roughly 6-feet, two-inches tall, I don't have what I consider to be big hands. They seem to be about the same size as my teacher, who is female. If I stretch till it hurts, I can span nine inches from the outside of my thumb to the outside of my pinky on my fret hand, a little over six inches from the outside of the index finger to the outside of the pinky. My longest finger is three and one-quarter inches, and my Palm is about four and three-quarter inches from the base of the fingers to the wrist. Relevant, I don't know.

In addition, I have fat fingertips (at least they seem that way), and on the S6, I occasionally tend to unintentionally mute strings. At the same time, I have trouble with getting all my fingers in on certain chords (such as A at the second fret) and with the span necessary for, say, B-minor (or G in alternate tuning with the low E string tuned to D).

Because of all of this (especially the thumb pain when trying to play certain chords), I've thought about going with a nylon string guitar of some sort. Lately, I've been thinking about a shorter scale classical guitar, thinking the might help with fat fingertips and with finger span on some chords.

The final problem is that, the way things now stand, I really have one chance to get this right, and I can't afford (or really justify) custom-made. I feel between a rock and a hard place and would welcome advice and suggestions. (Another small issue is that one of the local shops may or may not allow returns on anything I have to order from their website.)

U apologize for being so long-winded, but I've been thinking about this now for almost five months and haven't gotten much closer to a decision.

Walt

[amyFB]

Have you experimented with different hand and guitar position?

I get different muscle strain depending if the guitar is on right or left knee, and the angle up or down of the neck plays another role.

Where your thumb lands on the back of the neck is another point to look at.

And grip - it's so easy to overgrip the neck, I do it a lot

Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[WaltH]

Originally Posted by amyFB

Have you experimented with different hand and guitar position?

I get different muscle strain depending if the guitar is on right or left knee, and the angle up or down of the neck plays another role.

Where your thumb lands on the back of the neck is another point to look at.

And grip - it's so easy to overgrip the neck, I do it a lot

Good luck


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I have played a bit with both hand and guitar position and haven't found anything really comfortable as yet. My thumb does sometimes move around a bit, especially once it begins to tire and get sore. I'm sure I sometimes over grip the neck, but if I relax, then some strings begin to Buzz (especially on A, for example).

I like the sound of my guitar. I just wish it was a little easier to play.

[Steadfastly]

I found this thread a bit backwards than what I am used to.

I like a wide neck; at least 1 3/4 at the nut and have had people mock me that I should be able to play a narrower neck just as clean as a wider neck. However, I have larger hands and thicker fingers than the average person and simply find the wider neck more comfortable for me.

Nice to see it going the other way sometimes.

[backdoc]

I have smaller hands than you and I cannot play a seagull. Their wide flat necks kill me. Hand size does matter. Or finger length more properly. The OP back in 2009 said she is 5'3" but I have seen 5'3" women with longer fingers than I. If you physically cannot reach without flattening your finger down and muting all the other strings, you have to adapt and use different voicing of the same chord.

So anyway, I have therefore always used 1 11/16" nut guitars. I am a bit cramped on some chords even with my short fingers, so I took a chance on a Yamaha LS6 ARE which has a 44mm nut which is about half way between an 11/16 and a3/4. It plays like a dream and I can comfortably play for much longer. Try out a few different guitars. Some play easier than others. Cannot believe I paid $399 for this guitar. If you live where you can try one I recommend it.

[WaltH]

Originally Posted by backdoc

I have smaller hands than you and I cannot play a seagull. Their wide flat necks kill me. Hand size does matter. Or finger length more properly. The OP back in 2009 said she is 5'3" but I have seen 5'3" women with longer fingers than I. If you physically cannot reach without flattening your finger down and muting all the other strings, you have to adapt and use different voicing of the same chord.

So anyway, I have therefore always used 1 11/16" nut guitars. I am a bit cramped on some chords even with my short fingers, so I took a chance on a Yamaha LS6 ARE which has a 44mm nut which is about half way between an 11/16 and a3/4. It plays like a dream and I can comfortably play for much longer. Try out a few different guitars. Some play easier than others. Cannot believe I paid $399 for this guitar. If you live where you can try one I recommend it.

Interesting. A Yamaha LL-TA (I think it was, or maybe an A3R) that I tried felt really comfortable while fretting. I wasn't far enough along in my lessons to get a sense about finger spacing. I may have to give it another try.

[WaltH]

Because of the trouble I have stretching my fingers into certain chord shapes and because I want to be able to fret chords (such as C) without unintentionally muting strings, I m still considering a short-scale nylon-string guitar. (My instructor performs with one, and while her fingers are a little thinner than mine, they are close to the same length.)

One of the models I'm looking at is the Cordoba Leona 10-E (or L10-E). It has the 1 and 3/4 inch (45 mm) wide neck but a 24.2 inch (640 mm) scale length. I was wondering whether anyone had experience with this guitar (or anything similar to it).

The local Guitar Center store does not stock this model (nor do the other stores in town), so I would have to order it online to have shipped to the store, and while I can return it afterwards if not satisfied, it would be good to get some thoughts from others before pulling the trigger on a purchase.

Or maybe I'm going about this all wrong (in terms of thinking about short-scale) and need to think about learning to play chords further up the fretboard (not so far for fingers to span)? I am pretty sure I want nylon strings (seem easier to fret, thereby perhaps reducing the unintentional muting of strings, and I like the sound). I'm also pretty sure I don't want a classical neck because my fret hand has a hard time getting all the way around based on the few times I've handled one.

I suppose I could be overthinking things. There is just so much information out there that it gets a bit overwhelming at times. Despite that, I welcome any suggestions or tips. Thanks.

[Mr Fingers]

Lots of people are rightly emphasizing the relationship between technique, type of music, and hand size. I have small hands but have come to enjoy all types of necks. For a long time, I gravitated toward the slimmest (front -to-back) and narrow necks largely because I was playing beginner chords, lots of bar chords, and single note leads (= "electric") with my thumb wrapped around for leverage. I no longer need to or want to do that, and use relatively little pressure on the back of the neck at all. Once that kicked in, depth and width proved minimally important to me. I'm currently playing, mostly, a '36 Gibson/Ward's acoustic with no truss rod and thus a whopper of a deep mahogany neck. No sweat. But I wouldn't want to be hurricaning "Pinball Wizard" on that setup.

[WaltH]

Originally Posted by Mr Fingers

Lots of people are rightly emphasizing the relationship between technique, type of music, and hand size. I have small hands but have come to enjoy all types of necks. For a long time, I gravitated toward the slimmest (front -to-back) and narrow necks largely because I was playing beginner chords, lots of bar chords, and single note leads (= "electric") with my thumb wrapped around for leverage. I no longer need to or want to do that, and use relatively little pressure on the back of the neck at all. Once that kicked in, depth and width proved minimally important to me. I'm currently playing, mostly, a '36 Gibson/Ward's acoustic with no truss rod and thus a whopper of a deep mahogany neck. No sweat. But I wouldn't want to be hurricaning "Pinball Wizard" on that setup.

With regard to technique, I'm focused mainly on learning fingerstyle and basic strumming patterns as I don't feel comfortable with a plectrum. Type of music is mainly originals (folk/country, folk/pop, acoustic blues, Americana) with some covers thrown in and perhaps a little simple light jazz feel thrown in.

My biggest problems, I think, are lack of spread across frets with my fingers (they're a little shorter than many guys' fingers), seemingly fat fingertips (or perhaps lack of wrist flexibility) leading to the unintended muting of strings at times, and pain in the base joint of the thumb on my fret hand after 20 minutes or so of practice. My thumb also tends to be a bit wayward at times, aligning itself along the neck instead of across, as I've been told it should normally be.