What styles do you play on your archtop?

[deejayen]

I bought an acoustic earlier this year after playing only electrics for years.

I was thinking about buying a second acoustic, but it would have to be pretty special, and I haven't had a chance to play one which really appeals tone and playability wise. There was a vintage Gibson, but it was out of my league!

Anyway, I've suddenly thought about buying something a wee bit different - contemplating a nylon string guitar or an archtop.

I suppose it's hard to give generalisations, but what sort of tone can I expect from an archtop? Is bass a bit deader/thuddier? Or can they be well-balanced with good sustain across all notes?

What about volume - can they blend with a not-too-powerful singing voice?

I'd maybe want to do a bit of recording, singer\songwriter style, or solo guitar.

I suppose my playing is more country-based; melodic picking, but with a bit of jazz and blues thrown in. Generally lazy, but playing bass, melody and some rhythm at the same time.

[mr. beaumont]

Archtops are a WIDE range of sounds...really depends on the quality, the maker, the bracing, and the materials used.

Some BROAD generalizations...

Archtops really occupy the middle frequencies...if you hit them hard, they bark, a quick attack and short decay. Some find it unpleasant. Others useful.

If you know how to use your hands, you can control that bark into a perfect rhythm guitar tone. You can also coax very sweet tones out of an archtop.

Archtops are louder out front than they are to the player.

Archtops benefit from not being held tightly against your chest...let that back to some work!

Plywood archtops can sound dead and "boxy" acoustically. Oddly enough, these can be amazingly rich sounding guitars if amplified.

Solid wood guitars give you more volume and a wider tonal spectrum.

[stokes1971]

I was in a similar position a couple years ago, hadnt played an acoustic since 1973. I bought a D'Angelico EXL 63, its an archtop with a round sound hole. I'd agree with everything Mr Beaumont said except the plywood being "dead and boxy", at least as far as this one goes. When I tried it out, I also tried the D'Angelico archtop with the "f holes", EXL 1 I beleive it was, the 63 sounded much more lively and louder. As for styles, they do lend themselves more to jazz, evidenced by everybody I hand it to goes right into a jazz thing, I dont play jazz and I still like it, its different than the usual acoustic sound which I like.

[mr. beaumont]

Yeah, the plywood sounding dead is definitely a broad generalization. A 1950's ES-175, for example, can be a very lightly built and lively instrument.

Even my inexpensive Godin Kingpin is a good example of a plywood archtop with plenty of acoustic punch.

[Mark L]

I really enjoy the ES-125!

[Bluemonk]

Originally Posted by deejayen

What about volume - can they blend with a not-too-powerful singing voice?

Jeff Matz's answers are comprehensive and right on, IMO. As for this one. The volume of any guitar can be attenuated with a bit of control. There's no reason for any guitar to overpower your voice.

[deejayen]

Thanks!

I'd really like to try some - I can't remember seeing any in the guitar shops I frequent, so might have to go on a longer trip sometime.

What about the guitars from the 'artisan' builders - those that hand-carve them and try to make instruments as good as those from the 'golden era'? Are these likely to be more versatile or better sounding?

Also, what sort of strings do you use on an archtop?

[RLetson]

"Modern" acoustic archtops probably offer more variety of response than big-band-period instruments--those needed to be loud, with a particular frequency response (usually described as "midrangey") and attack/decay envelope.

But not all "vintage" archtops, of course--I've played some late-20s/early '30s Gibsons that are quite responsive and fat/sweet while still not sounding like flat-tops. (Mother Maybell's L-5 probably fits in there.) I have a '46 Epiphone Broadway that can chunk and do chord-melody. And modern designs tend to head in that direction--my Eastman 805 chunks happily but also possesses a decent chord-solo voice.

Strings are a matter of player preference and the individual guitar. For practical reasons (mostly the need to amplify), I favor Thomastik BeBops, but if I were playing acoustic only, I'd just use a fairly muscular phosphor bronze set.

If you want to hear what an archtop can do in the hands of a skilled player, look up Jonathan Stout's videos--he has a very good ear for the classic swing sound. Or go back to the sources, like Allan Reuss (one of Stout's models) or Carl Kress--notice how round his sound is here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JJD-jdU6DTw

Almost forgot--Rob MacKillop of this parish has posted some very lovely plectrum-style playing on a couple of different archtops.

[mr. beaumont]

Originally Posted by deejayen

Thanks!

I'd really like to try some - I can't remember seeing any in the guitar shops I frequent, so might have to go on a longer trip sometime.

What about the guitars from the 'artisan' builders - those that hand-carve them and try to make instruments as good as those from the 'golden era'? Are these likely to be more versatile or better sounding?

Also, what sort of strings do you use on an archtop?

Re: Artisan builders...

Assuming we are talking acoustic archtops, you kind of have 3 camps...those who build in the traditional style, those in the modern style, and then your oddballs and real trail blazers.

A "traditional style" to me is a parallel braced (though Gibson DID make some X braced archtops) vintage sound. They can be a great rhythm guitar, or with some finesse, you can "coax the velvet out" (thank Steve DeRosa for that phrase)

The modern style tends to be X braced, a sweeter sound, can be nasally if not done right, some might call "stringy." Benedettos fit this bill. They could be thought of as more versatile, I suppose.

Then you have your folks just doing their own thing, experimenting, breaking down stereotypes of what an archtop should sound like...Ken Parker, John Monteleone, Tom Ribbecke, some others...these guitars are financially out of reach for most of us, but they are really something special and unique.

Strings?

I like 80/20 bronze or Monels on an acoustic archtop. Definitely monels if the instrument has a nice acoustic voice but also a pickup.

For a guitar meant to be plugged in for jazz, I like flatwounds.

[Mandobart]

My archtop is an Eastman MDC 805 converted to a 6 string (basically an AR 805). Carved spruce top, carved maple back.

I string it with medium (13's) monels. It's great for Carter scratch type old C&W, jazz, swing, blues.

It's one of my keepers (says the guy who currently has over 25 instruments and only sold 3 over the last few decades).

[stokes1971]

"Yeah, the plywood sounding dead is definitely a broad generalization". I am only referring to the one I have, of course. I am sure if I tried a high end solid wood archtop my opinion of my plywood would change drastically.

[Robin, Wales]

I suppose it's hard to give generalisations, but what sort of tone can I expect from an archtop? Is bass a bit deader/thuddier? Or can they be well-balanced with good sustain across all notes?

What about volume - can they blend with a not-too-powerful singing voice?

I'd maybe want to do a bit of recording, singer\songwriter style, or solo guitar.

I suppose my playing is more country-based; melodic picking, but with a bit of jazz and blues thrown in. Generally lazy, but playing bass, melody and some rhythm at the same time.

I am a campfire hack guitarist and singer. I play/sing bluegrass, country, folk. I bought a cheap second hand Godin 5th Avenue acoustic archtop about 2 years ago (they don't make the acoustic only version now - I expect that it just didn't sell). It's all plywood, boxy, barky, and can sound like rattling a bag of spanners when strummed - or it can be as lush as long pasture grass when coaxed. I flat pick Carter style and Woody Guthrie style song backing on it. And I Travis pick some of my set using a thumb pick and metal fingerpicks.

I have replaced the factory Tusq bridge with a rosewood one from StuMac (needed shaping to fit) and use Monel or pure nickel wound round 13-56 strings. It has way less bass and overtones than a flatop guitar - but I don't miss either. I play a lot with a capo up to fret 6 and it works just fine.

I love it! I really love it!

I do find that I have to "play" the guitar and be quite physical with it. It's the opposite of my D-18, which basically plays itself.

I have two gigs this coming week, one just a duo and the second with a full band (bluegrass/country set for both gigs). The first is in a grocery store with no p. a. I'll play archtop guitar and my partner mandolin. And the gig with the band is in a local music venue/bar. I'll just use a stage mic' at the second, not plug in. The archtop has a great forward throw of sound, so it mic's really well on stage.

My D-18 will stay at home and it's the archtop that will get to play bluegrass, because it is just such a good fit. It's really easy to sing with (think Maybelle Carter) because it is so minimalist - there's lots of space for voice. When I'm jaminng with friends or playing at parties, campfires etc where other folks are playing dreads then the archtop just works really well in the mix.

Don't get me wrong, my 5th Avenue sounds awful at first strum compared to the cheapest $99 flattop in a guitar store. But actually it has great character lying under the bonnet. In our duo set we sing "Man of Constant Sorrow" me on the archtop in drop D (capo 3 key of F) and my partner on mandolin. The timbre is straight from the 1930s - it just works so well.

So I would say, prepare to be both disappointed and delighted when you try an acoustic archtop. If you can see past the disappointment then you can have a really characterful workhorse acoustic instrument in your hands - more than capable of delivering the playing styles you have set out in your post.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by Robin, Wales

...I bought a cheap second hand Godin 5th Avenue acoustic archtop about 2 years ago (they don't make the acoustic only version now - I expect that it just didn't sell). It's all plywood, boxy, barky, and can sound like rattling a bag of spanners when strummed - or it can be as lush as long pasture grass when coaxed...

I love it! I really love it!

I do find that I have to "play" the guitar and be quite physical with it. It's the opposite of my D-18, which basically plays itself...

...The archtop has a great forward throw of sound, so it mic's really well on stage.

...It's really easy to sing with (think Maybelle Carter) because it is so minimalist - there's lots of space for voice. When I'm jamming with friends or playing at parties, campfires, etc. where other folks are playing dreads then the archtop just works really well in the mix...

Don't get me wrong, my 5th Avenue sounds awful at first strum compared to the cheapest $99 flattop in a guitar store. But actually it has great character lying under the bonnet...The timbre is straight from the 1930s - it just works so well.

So I would say, prepare to be both disappointed and delighted when you try an acoustic archtop. If you can see past the disappointment then you can have a really characterful workhorse acoustic instrument in your hands - more than capable of delivering the playing styles you have set out in your post.

I have nothing to add...

[RJVB]

Originally Posted by deejayen

Anyway, I've suddenly thought about buying something a wee bit different - contemplating a nylon string guitar or an archtop.

I got my own archtop about 2 or 3 years back and find it almost the ideal guitar for me for every repertoire that can stand to be played on steel strings. It lacks the boomy, slushy internal "chorus" of big steel-string flattops (instead it has a nice, delicate internal reverb) and also most of the the jingly aspect flattop trebles have (archtops can have an acoustic treble sound that really evokes a singing e-guitar). It's often suggested that archtops lack bass (and recordings tend to confirm that because most people demo them in jazzy repertoire that simply lacks real, low bass notes!) but mine certainly doesn't. It's not even so that I don't ever need to mute them.

I like it so much I sold me acoustic and started contemplating to get a nylon-string archtop if/when finances allowed. I almost got a Slaman Dome (I had 2 great offers) but figured out just in time they have a 1.75" nutwidth and rather narrow string spacing at the saddle too. The same as on my resonator in fact, which limits its use for more classically-oriented repertoire for me, but I may end up getting a Dome at a later point.

You don't say where you're based nor what your budget would be so it's not really possible to give out recommendations for builders - but I will repeat that Cranmer Guitars build very interesting, hand-carved archtops for a very reasonable price compared to what is often asked.

Another option to get a custom-built instrument is to go to Yungzhi or Mr Wu., via the contact person know as Mrs. Lora.

Mary Spender has a cute video on her YT channel of her discovering a vintage archtop (Harmony or Kay I think?) and doing some singing with it.

For uncommon repertoire played fingerstyle on archtops check out videos by Michael Watts and Michael Chapdelaine.

[Howard Emerson]

Here's some of what I've played on my archtop since 1976 when I got it for $35.00.







....and a little bottleneck for good measure.



You just have to listen to what the guitar says it's capable of, and play accordingly.

HE