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  #16  
Old 01-31-2019, 09:27 AM
IndyHD28 IndyHD28 is offline
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An easy way to “get-it” is to take your liquified Humidipaks and put them outside during a 40F rain (100% RH). They will quickly give up their moisture and crystallize. The instructions for Humidipaks calls for a temp of 75F. 50% RH at 75F is a moister environment than 50% RH at 65F because as shown above, the warmer air is capable of holding more moisture.

BTW, once Humidipaks are crystallized (depleted of moisture) they can easily be rehydrated. Just put them in a one gallon zip lock with a piece of moistened sponge and they’ll come back.
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  #17  
Old 01-31-2019, 09:52 AM
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KevWind KevWind is offline
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Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
I would have to ask what you mean by "electric heat".
I don't know of anyone who relies on a whole-house system of any type of electric heating, rooms maybe.
A lot probably depends on location in the country and possibly what decade the home is constructed in
In my 40 +years involved in residential construction in the western 1/2 of the US, from when I started in 1966 to somewhere in the 80's the predominant whole house heating system was forced air electric (prior to that it was mostly oil fired forced air), like the house I grew up in. Baseboard electric also started started coming in especially in lower priced new construction or multi dwelling units or as a retro-fit to older houses

Then in the mid to late 80's - 90's , also about the time you also started to see more natural gas forced air and in the more custom or semi custom type upper mid priced homes being built, that started offering radiant floor heating systems as an upgrade option, usually Nat Gas fired.
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  #18  
Old 01-31-2019, 09:59 AM
The Bard Rocks The Bard Rocks is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rokdog49 View Post
I would have to ask what you mean by "electric heat".
I don't know of anyone who relies on a whole-house system of any type of electric heating, rooms maybe.
The hot water systems you refer to are called "radiant" heating, which has been around forever. "Radiant" heats objects in the room as opposed to what the HVAC trades call "scorched air" (forced air furnaces), which heats by pumping in warm air.
Radiant technology uses heated water to "radiate" heat and has a lot less effect on the humidity levels in a building than forced air.
You must live in a very different area than I do. Radiant, I call "radiant" and has pipes under the floor. Hot water has baseboards with radiators (aluminum fins on copper pipe) that are exposed to view. Electric is just that, no other fuel than electricity (and not heat exchangers; they are something else). I live in a cold climate and there are homes whose sole heat is electric. Having discovered that this is expensive, many of them supplement with wood or pellet stove or propane fireplaces/stoves.
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  #19  
Old 01-31-2019, 12:52 PM
charles Tauber charles Tauber is offline
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Originally Posted by IndyHD28 View Post
An easy way to “get-it” is to take your liquified Humidipaks and put them outside during a 40F rain (100% RH). They will quickly give up their moisture and crystallize.
Have you actually tried doing this, and it works?

At 100% RH, regardless of temperature, the air cannot absorb any more moisture. Putting a damp object in that environment, it will not dry or lose moisture - the air can't absorb anymore. Actually, I'd expect the less-moist-than-ambient-air Humidipak should absorb moisture, not lose it, until it is in equilibrium with the moisture level of the ambient air.

Quote:
The instructions for Humidipaks calls for a temp of 75F. 50% RH at 75F is a moister environment than 50% RH at 65F because as shown above, the warmer air is capable of holding more moisture.
Not really. 50% RH is 50% RH regardless of temperature. What changes is the actual amount of moisture in the air, referred to as the absolute humidity. What matters to wood - and its absorption and desorption of moisture - is relative humidity. So while there is more moisture in the the same relative humidity at a higher temperature, it is (nearly) irrelevant to the welfare of wooden objects.

Think of it this way. Start with a 10 oz drinking glass. Fill the glass 1/2 way. It is filled to 50% of its capacity. If you pour that 5 oz of water into a 5 oz drinking glass, the amount (quantity/volume/weight) of water remains the same, but the 5 oz glass is at 100% of its capacity to hold water. Thus, although the quantity of water remains the same, the holding potential of the vessel (glass) changes from 50% to 100% of its capacity.

By contrast, if we pour the 5 oz of water from the 5 oz glass, at 100% of its capacity, back into the 10 oz glass, then add more water until the 10 oz glass is entirely full - reached its maximum holding capacity - then the 10 oz glass is 100% of its capacity. What has changed is the amount/quantity of water in the glass. That is analogous to absolute humidity - adding moisture to the air.

To put the behaviour shown in the psychometric chart in simple language, if you take air at, say, 40 degrees and 100% RH, representative of outdoor winter air, then heat it, by whatever means you prefer, to 70 degrees - typical of indoor winter temperatures - without adding additional moisture - i.e. without raising the absolute humidity - the relative humidity will plummet (to about 35%). (For colder outdoor temperatures, the amount of drop in RH will be greater.) That is typically what happens in the winter in cold climates - heating outdoor air without adding additional moisture. Note that the absolute humidity (the weight of moisture/weight of air) remains constant, as one traverses the (dry bulb) temperature scale on the chart horizontally. (Dry bulb temperature is what is, for example, read on a typical mercury thermometer.)
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  #20  
Old 01-31-2019, 09:32 PM
printer2 printer2 is offline
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This is a fun little calculator. Set the temperature to the outside temperature, same with the humidity. Select solve for humidity and raise up the temperature to your room temperature. Watch the humidity drop. Say 0 degrees with 50% RH. Raise the temperature of the air to 72 degrees. The RH drops to 3%.

The dew point is the temperature where the amount of humidity in the air will start to condense. Dew on your car or the ground. Or on the window pane. For a given amount of moisture in the air, it doesn't change whether the temperature of the air goes up or down. As you raise the temperature the RH goes up (the capacity of the air to hold moisture).

http://www.dpcalc.org/
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  #21  
Old 02-01-2019, 08:35 AM
Duck916 Duck916 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KevWind View Post
A lot probably depends on location in the country and possibly what decade the home is constructed in
In my 40 +years involved in residential construction in the western 1/2 of the US, from when I started in 1966 to somewhere in the 80's the predominant whole house heating system was forced air electric (prior to that it was mostly oil fired forced air), like the house I grew up in. Baseboard electric also started started coming in especially in lower priced new construction or multi dwelling units or as a retro-fit to older houses

Then in the mid to late 80's - 90's , also about the time you also started to see more natural gas forced air and in the more custom or semi custom type upper mid priced homes being built, that started offering radiant floor heating systems as an upgrade option, usually Nat Gas fired.

I remember in the Southern California area where I grew up, lots of houses built in the '60s were fully electric, including house heating, water heating, and cooking heat source. Some of the homes had little plaques identifying them as "Concern" homes that used the best fuel--electricity (kinda like LEED homes today).

I think this was related to the expected rise of nuclear energy. Some proponents claimed nuclear energy would be "too cheap to meter." I suspect that drove the move to all-electric homes.

Anyway, this is a very interesting and informative thread.
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