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  #1  
Old 12-19-2018, 09:45 AM
RockyRacc00n RockyRacc00n is offline
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Default bone nut and saddle from stew mac

Does anyone have any warning or gotchas to be wary of as I try this DIY for nut and saddle replacement on a Gibson acoustic? 2002 J-50. Not looking for feedback on the sound or anything like that. Just anything I should be aware of when doing the installation.

I'm about to order this
https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_an..._Bone_Nut.html

and this
https://www.stewmac.com/Materials_an...e_Saddles.html


They have these specifically for post 2000 Gibsons. And the measurements seem to fit, with room to shave off as needed.

I messed around with saddles before so I think I am good there. But the nut.... I never messed around with them before. But this one is already slotted and I think I will be OK if I follow the basic steps I see on some DIY vids.

Looking for any helpful advice from someone that’s tried it.



EDIT: Thank you all for taking interest and responding. Please see post #22 for my decision. No need for additional input, unless you want to add more thoughts anyway.

Last edited by RockyRacc00n; 12-20-2018 at 03:37 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-19-2018, 10:51 AM
RockyRacc00n RockyRacc00n is offline
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Bumping after making my question a bit more specific.
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  #3  
Old 12-19-2018, 11:12 AM
Black-n-Nan Black-n-Nan is offline
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For the nut- it’s not that difficult. First remove the old one. Before removing, cut the laquer around the nut with sharp knife, then gently hit it with piece of wood or plastic hammer. Clean the nut slot from old glue. Set the new nut (no glue it!).

String up, and check nut action. Actually you need the nut slots are to be close to the frets height. To get the reference point, I use carpenter’s pencil, splitted on to parts. Siimply put flat side of pencil to the frets and mark the nut. You will see how much you need to sand off the bottom.
Do it slowly, and check every time.
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:20 AM
jpmist jpmist is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyRacc00n View Post
Does anyone have any warning or gotchas to be wary of as I try this DIY for nut and saddle replacement on a Gibson acoustic?

Looking for any helpful advice from someone that’s tried it.
It's great you've looked for vids on YouTube, but also check out this great site on how the nut should be adjusted http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...nutaction.html

Everybody has a pain point for prices and shipping cost - StewMac far exceeds mine. I'll stop there

The link above will show you how to check for nut slot height. It's very unlikely that a preslotted nut will have the nut slot depth perfect for your guitar. Professional grade nut slot files are obscenely expensive for something you'll use a couple of times so go to your neighborhood car parts chain store and buy some cheap "acetylene torch cleaners" which will work to file down the nut slots. They're not terribly sharp so the process will go slowly which is a good thing in the sense that you're unlikely to go too deep and ruin the nut.

Getting the nut slots right has an amazing effect on how comfortable and easy a guitar plays so be sure to spend some time on it to make the bone upgrade worthwhile.

Good luck with it!
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:27 AM
Matt McGriff Matt McGriff is offline
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Maybe try Bob Colosi as a resource. He can get you a partially finished nut and saddle and you can dial in the working height.

http://www.guitarsaddles.com/
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Old 12-19-2018, 11:39 AM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
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It doesn't hurt to wear a good dust mask when working with bone or shell. Although they are not toxic, particulates of that size are very bad if inhaled.
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Old 12-19-2018, 12:39 PM
RockyRacc00n RockyRacc00n is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Matt McGriff View Post
Maybe try Bob Colosi as a resource. He can get you a partially finished nut and saddle and you can dial in the working height.

http://www.guitarsaddles.com/
I know he is recommended a lot here but not sure why his might be preferred over the nearly finished ones at a lower cost from stew mac.



Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmist View Post
It's great you've looked for vids on YouTube, but also check out this great site on how the nut should be adjusted http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/Musi...nutaction.html
Thank you for that additional resource. I read it and I think I get it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmist View Post
Everybody has a pain point for prices and shipping cost - StewMac far exceeds mine. I'll stop there
Where else would you recommend. Yes, It looks like I have to pay for shipping, but I found stew mac to be the most cost effective.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmist View Post
The link above will show you how to check for nut slot height. It's very unlikely that a preslotted nut will have the nut slot depth perfect for your guitar.
If I needed to adjust the depth, wouldn't I just shave down the bottom? Or are there cases where the slots themselves have to get made deeper?

Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmist View Post
Getting the nut slots right has an amazing effect on how comfortable and easy a guitar plays so be sure to spend some time on it to make the bone upgrade worthwhile.

Good luck with it!
Thank you. I don't really need to do this and I am told I won't hear a significant improvement, but it's something I want to try... just to mess around. I was going to ask my local guitar tech do it, but his price was $300 (huh?!?!?) He said he had to custom cut/shape everything and made it sound way more complicated so that's why I am attempting this myself. We'll see what mess I end up getting myself into.



Quote:
Originally Posted by Rodger Knox View Post
It doesn't hurt to wear a good dust mask when working with bone or shell. Although they are not toxic, particulates of that size are very bad if inhaled.
Oh, thank you for that advice. My little one likes to hover when I do any guitar work. I'll have to make sure he is covered as well.
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2018, 01:35 PM
tomiv9 tomiv9 is offline
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While shaving the nut from the bottom will get you a decent setup, if you really want it to be perfect you need to get some nut files, and file each nut slot individually as needed
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2018, 01:39 PM
Bax Burgess Bax Burgess is offline
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Order two saddle blanks. It can be hit or miss getting a blank that has even density. Hold each up to a light to see how uniform they are.
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2018, 01:45 PM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyRacc00n View Post
Thank you. I don't really need to do this and I am told I won't hear a significant improvement, but it's something I want to try... just to mess around. I was going to ask my local guitar tech do it, but his price was $300 (huh?!?!?) He said he had to custom cut/shape everything and made it sound way more complicated so that's why I am attempting this myself. We'll see what mess I end up getting myself into.
Your local tech has to make a living, and $300 is probably about 4 hours of his time. That's about how long it takes to shape a nut and saddle. It's not that difficult, but it does take some time. Go for it!
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  #11  
Old 12-19-2018, 02:03 PM
Tony Burns Tony Burns is offline
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I remember doing this a few years back to my '78 Guild D-25 .
it had a plastic nut and saddle ( replaced both with bone )
- i worked at it slowly and carefully and i copied the contour of the old saddle and nut
-plus i read a couple of older posts on how to do it -it came out good , -even my intonation was decent !
After i finished that I installed a set of Gotohs from Grizzly tools -
That was a great transformation !
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  #12  
Old 12-19-2018, 02:13 PM
Aaron Smith Aaron Smith is offline
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If this is the first time you've worked on nut slots, order two or three of the nuts. Cutting nut slots to proper depth is the most challenging part of setup when you're just learning IMO. One extra swipe of the file, and the slot is too deep. I've tried a bunch of salvage techniques (bone dust/super glue etc.) but for me the best solution is to start over at this point.

If you're ordering from StewMac, get one of these little doohickies. Huge time saver.

https://www.stewmac.com/Luthier_Tool...ng_Lifter.html
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Old 12-19-2018, 03:35 PM
maxtheaxe maxtheaxe is offline
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Pre-slotted nuts are rarely, if ever slotted to the proper depth...they're just started, to give the proper string spacing because there's just no way they can do the depth of the string slots accurately without the guitar in hand.

Stewmac's tools are pretty pricey, but they make the work a lot easier. You will need to have a set of properly gauged nut/string slotting files at minimum. Another tool that I've found works like a charm is the Safe-slot Nut Guard, which resembles a capo but made to hold feeler gauges...guarantees that you can't cut too deep. The only caveat is that they might not work if the guitar has a volute at the headstock.

I suppose one could also use heavy rubber bands & feeler gauges to ascertain & set the depth; I go just the barest fraction above the first fret for the depth of the string slots, using stacked feeler gauge. Then slide the gauges up against the face of the nut and cut straight down until the file hits. That way the bases of the slots are all consistent with the neck radius.

There are other details of slotting that are easy to read up on, like getting the slot at the right angle away from the face of the nut...just read up on that stuff.

Good luck!
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  #14  
Old 12-19-2018, 04:06 PM
RockyRacc00n RockyRacc00n is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by maxtheaxe View Post
Pre-slotted nuts are rarely, if ever slotted to the proper depth...they're just started, to give the proper string spacing because there's just no way they can do the depth of the string slots accurately without the guitar in hand.



Stewmac's tools are pretty pricey, but they make the work a lot easier. You will need to have a set of properly gauged nut/string slotting files at minimum. Another tool that I've found works like a charm is the Safe-slot Nut Guard, which resembles a capo but made to hold feeler gauges...guarantees that you can't cut too deep. The only caveat is that they might not work if the guitar has a volute at the headstock.



I suppose one could also use heavy rubber bands & feeler gauges to ascertain & set the depth; I go just the barest fraction above the first fret for the depth of the string slots, using stacked feeler gauge. Then slide the gauges up against the face of the nut and cut straight down until the file hits. That way the bases of the slots are all consistent with the neck radius.



There are other details of slotting that are easy to read up on, like getting the slot at the right angle away from the face of the nut...just read up on that stuff.



Good luck!


Hmmm. Maybe this is more than I am ready to handle. I assumed the only shaving I would have to do is the bottom of the nut. (And sides and the back.)

In my simple mind, I am thinking the only reason you would want to shave the slots deeper is to lower the strings. But you could achieve the lowering by shaving the bottom.

Now after reading your comment and the one above, I am wondering what is it that you would achieve by shaving the slots deeper that you wouldn’t be able to achieve by shaving the bottom.

I’m thinking, the only such thing might be making sure the slots are cut deep enough for the strings to sit securely in the slots. And that depth should a standard measurement because everyone knows the string gauges pretty much. So pre slotting them to a certain depth should be a standard thing and there shouldn’t be any adjustments needed there... is what I’m thinking, in my non experience with these things.

What am I not getting?
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Old 12-19-2018, 04:17 PM
Rodger Knox Rodger Knox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RockyRacc00n View Post
Hmmm. Maybe this is more than I am ready to handle. I assumed the only shaving I would have to do is the bottom of the nut. (And sides and the back.)

In my simple mind, I am thinking the only reason you would want to shave the slots deeper is to lower the strings. But you could achieve the lowering by shaving the bottom.

Now after reading your comment and the one above, I am wondering what is it that you would achieve by shaving the slots deeper that you wouldn’t be able to achieve by shaving the bottom.

I’m thinking, the only such thing might be making sure the slots are cut deep enough for the strings to sit securely in the slots. And that depth should a standard measurement because everyone knows the string gauges pretty much. So pre slotting them to a certain depth should be a standard thing and there shouldn’t be any adjustments needed there... is what I’m thinking, in my non experience with these things.

What am I not getting?
The purpose of working the slots is that each string can be optimized separately, which is more or less required. Maybe there should be a standard, but there isn't. The way a guitar plays is very much influenced by the depth of the nut slots, and very small differences are easily noticed.

That's good advice to get a couple of extra blanks. As I said before, it's not difficult, but it's easy to go too far, then it's best to start over.
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