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  #136  
Old 01-12-2019, 02:59 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Originally Posted by ewalling View Post
Superior!
In all fairness, that's so subjective. I was looking for a Gibson J-45 and considering the boutique builders as well and decided on a vintage Gibson.

It arrives Wednesday and I have a 72 hour return window. It's going to my tech for a checkup too. Not taking any chances.

I figured that I'll always wonder either way, so I'd start with a vintage example as the benchmark, and in a year or so, start looking at guys like Kopp, Blazer and Henke, Fairbanks, Pre-War, etc so that I have something to compare it to.

If I don't like the one that I bought, I'll send it back and take a trip to Nashville to try out more guitars from various builders. It's a fun and very personal journey to each individual player. Every single guitar is different, and there are some incredible guitars out there.

This is a great time to be a guitarist.
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  #137  
Old 01-12-2019, 07:58 PM
BT55 BT55 is offline
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Default Who Makes Martins Better than Martin?

I’ve owned a few Martins and each had a different sound based on their tonewoods. You can’t pigeon hole all Martin Guitars with the same tonality. IMO they all tend toward the deep end but in different amounts. If you are only referencing a deep sound my all hog Taylor 520 is equal to the best of them.
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  #138  
Old 01-13-2019, 01:14 PM
kathyson kathyson is offline
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Originally Posted by AHill View Post
I'm curious that Collings is on the list. A recent thread compared Collings to Santa Cruz and the general feeling was Collings had more of a modern, almost Taylor kind of sound to them. The consensus was they are superb guitars, but just different in sound than Martins.
Collings definitely do not sound like Taylor. Although Taylor makes a fine instrument, Collings are a different thing altogether. Most are louder and more articulate. Bob Taylor and Bill Collings were good friends. At Bill Collings funeral and eulogy, Bob Taylor said he owned a Collings and marveled at it. He stated he didn't know how Bill did it. I own three Collings and have played dozens of Taylor's as well as working for a Taylor distributor. Very different instruments from each other.
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  #139  
Old 01-13-2019, 01:21 PM
zoopeda zoopeda is offline
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There’s a lot of buzz around Pre-War Guitar Co. right now regarding their instruments as being the next best thing to an actual vintage Martin. I’m talking about TONE here (because some people will get hung up on the relic thing which is a distraction from the point. These guitars come non-relic too.). Rumor has it David Grisman just bought one. Molly Tuttle and Tommy Emanuel, among others, as well. They’re hard to find, and the last one on reverb sold in less than 6 hours at a price $200 under price for a new one. I suspect once there are more than a thousand out there circulating, we may have another heavy weight contender.

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  #140  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:21 PM
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The D28 or HD35 you want may actually be a D41. The top is of a better quality (than a D28 or D35) and if you sit down and play one next to a D28 or D35 I think you may be blown away. Now, I know what you're thinking: you're thinking, did I fire six shots or was it only--Wait! No! Not THAT! You're thinking it is out of your price range. Au contraire my young grasshopper. It seems people don't really look for used D41's. So, if you're patient, you can find someone dropping his price down to, well, I've seen D41s selling for as low as $2,100. The big question would be whether you would buy something without playing it. But, I think if you are patient, you may see one selling that's close enough to you that you could take it for a test drive.
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  #141  
Old 01-13-2019, 08:40 PM
Rmz76 Rmz76 is offline
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This was mentioned in another thread, but I'd like some opinions. Specifically who makes a better D-28 or HD-35 type of dreadnought?

By better, I mean more consistent sound from guitar to guitar, and better quality in build. I am specifically interested in spruce / EIR tonewoods. I like the sound of that combination. Cost is secondary, but given an HD-35 MAP is $3229 or thereabouts, I'd like the answers to be in the $3000-4000K range. I'm not looking to spend $6K+ on a new guitar. I'm also not looking for a dread that sounds like a Taylor. I'm looking for a dread that sounds more like what the a good Martin D-28 or D-35 sounds like. Flat picking or strumming would be the main style of play. And, yes, I know I can just buy a Martin. Just wanting to open up my options for consideration.
"Better build quality" is subjective. On one hand you have newer smaller builders who have made a name for themselves with outstanding product like Collings and Santa Cruz. Are their instruments more consistent guitar to guitar than Martin? I don't think we can say that. I can say the Collings and Santa Cruz models I've been able to play felt and sounded unique. In comparison to Martin's mainstream line (D28, D18, D35), they felt lighter, seemed more responsive in regard to me feeling the vibrations from the back and sides as I played and they had very long sustain. You could look at the binding, finish inlay work, etc.. and just tell these instruments were high end product. But compared to a Martin Authentic it would be another story.

Does that make them better than Martin's best offering? Nope. Just different. It sounds like different is what you're looking for and I see I'm not the only one recommending those two. In the end, Martin is Martin for a reason. No other builder can match their legacy in the business and to me that does mean something. They have a long history of building exceptional guitars, by many metrics the world's best steel string acoustic guitars.. Tone is impacted by every little detail to some extent. No other builder conditions their wood exactly like Martin does, no other builder uses the exact same molds, in the end only a Martin is going to sound like a Martin and the value of the Martin tone, playablity, durability, etc... is all well established.

With high end, all solid wood acoustics "better" always circles back to the attributes in tone, feel and aesthetic that the individual player is looking for.
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  #142  
Old 01-13-2019, 10:40 PM
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Ah, but there is another option that could take you to Martin nirvana. If you really want to find the one true tone, the tone to enlightenment, the tone of your Ultimate Concern, then you must practice your mantra; MMMMMMMaaaarrrrrrr . . . tin, (then breath deep into your belly and repeat) MMMMMMMaaaarrrrrrr . . . tin. Then, I suggest you drive to the Guitar Center in Cerritos, park where you won't get a ticket, pay the ferryman a silver coin to carry you across the asphalt abyss, enter the gates of Tranquility, pass the bad guitarists playing all over the place, into the sacred acoustic temple, past the cheap ones and then through the doors to the blissful expensive guitars, ignoring the Taylors, and there, behind the glass, might very well be the guitar of your dreams: A 2015 50th Anniversary D35, brand new, because, well, Cerritos isn't exactly a uh, uh, never mind, and then bargain, because the the manager wants to get rid of it. My guess is you could buy it for less than $2,700, (the sales guy whispered this.) Make sure you ask for 4 sets of strings. This is the guitar I was going to buy, but I went home to think about it and practice my mantra: MMMMMMMaaaarrrrrrr . . . tin. And lo and behold, another sales guy was cleaning out a back room at the Hollywood Sam Ash, and under a bunch of debris found a new 2015 50th Anniversary HD35 and said, "How did this get here?" Then he posted it online. I saw it. It called to me, "Duh, come, run, fly over here and hold me in your arms. I'm waiting for you." I've been in bliss ever since. Now, in my search for a D35 or HD35 I felt the 2015 50th Anniversary 35s were something special. But, for some reason they weren't flying off the shelves. So, one of them, yes, one of them could be calling you, "AHill, come to me, take me in your arms."
If this helps, I ask for nothing, except that you remember me when you come into your kingdom.
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  #143  
Old 01-14-2019, 06:52 AM
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To the OP - SCGC, H&D, Collings, and Bourgeois have all been mentioned. You might also take a close look at builders, Preston Thompson and JC Baxendale.

On the latter two, perhaps give Matt at Eddies’s Guitars a call to discuss Thompson and Kim Sherman at Cotten Music to discuss Baxendale. Both are very knowledgeable on these two builders.
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  #144  
Old 01-14-2019, 07:53 AM
musicman1951 musicman1951 is offline
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First I have to admit I have not played every guitar model available in the world.

And I don't have your ears. I have played a few H&D guitars and was fairly unimpressed, but that certainly doesn't mean you would be.

I've read a handful of excellent suggestions for nice guitars over these pages and I've played them and agree they are very nice guitars - but they cost over $5,000 and don't really sound like Martin guitars - but I think they qualify as wonderful dreads that are close enough to satisfy the question.

If you're able to go where you can try out a bunch of Martins and select a good example you're really going to be hard pressed to find anything comparable in that price range (with apologies to the Chinese copy w/same specks sound the same crowd).

There are tons of used Martins available which increases the challenge for finding a "better" guitar for the same money.

There are lots of guitars in the world. You could get lucky and find one that fits your requirements, but I suspect it's a fools errand to imagine the search will be quick or easy - or even guaranteed successful.

I also strongly suspect that a search for a great Martin would be waaaaay easier, and virtually guaranteed successful. It's not like they only make a dozen great ones a year.
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  #145  
Old 01-14-2019, 12:21 PM
Duh Duh is offline
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Originally Posted by musicman1951 View Post
First I have to admit I have not played every guitar model available in the world.

And I don't have your ears. I have played a few H&D guitars and was fairly unimpressed, but that certainly doesn't mean you would be.

I've read a handful of excellent suggestions for nice guitars over these pages and I've played them and agree they are very nice guitars - but they cost over $5,000 and don't really sound like Martin guitars - but I think they qualify as wonderful dreads that are close enough to satisfy the question.

If you're able to go where you can try out a bunch of Martins and select a good example you're really going to be hard pressed to find anything comparable in that price range (with apologies to the Chinese copy w/same specks sound the same crowd).

There are tons of used Martins available which increases the challenge for finding a "better" guitar for the same money.

There are lots of guitars in the world. You could get lucky and find one that fits your requirements, but I suspect it's a fools errand to imagine the search will be quick or easy - or even guaranteed successful.

I also strongly suspect that a search for a great Martin would be waaaaay easier, and virtually guaranteed successful. It's not like they only make a dozen great ones a year.
I agree and disagree with Musicman. There are fewer buyers for the for top end guitars and you can find, if you are patient or you bargain, a seller of a new Martin, 2017 or earlier that is still on the shelf, that fits your needs and you can get it for $2,400 to $3,000. Also, I've played two Taylors that could go toe to toe with any Martin. One got his Taylor as a gift from his wife and the other searched and searched, owned a D41 and still has an Olsen (which he bought when it wasn't pricey) and his favorite is his Taylor. I've played it and I generally don't like Taylors, but his is outstanding. So, you should give yourself at least a year, go to as many guitar stores as you can, and you will find the guitar of your dreams. You should also take a look at the Seth Avett Martin D35. Very different and very nice. One day I will add that to my HD35.
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  #146  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:10 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Even trying out a bunch of guitars is tough. Not to bash any of the big chain stores, but often the guitars have terrible setups and are over humidified. Either one of those things can make a stellar guitar sound less than stellar.

Not to mention that you have more than just a couple of choices. Things can become more difficult as the available options increase. There are so many variables even in the best situations.

I like to find a guitar that I like, and go back the next day with fresh ears to see if I still feel the same way. You do run the risk of it getting sold though.
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  #147  
Old 01-14-2019, 04:12 PM
The Kid! The Kid! is offline
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Originally Posted by Duh View Post
I agree and disagree with Musicman. There are fewer buyers for the for top end guitars and you can find, if you are patient or you bargain, a seller of a new Martin, 2017 or earlier that is still on the shelf, that fits your needs and you can get it for $2,400 to $3,000. Also, I've played two Taylors that could go toe to toe with any Martin. One got his Taylor as a gift from his wife and the other searched and searched, owned a D41 and still has an Olsen (which he bought when it wasn't pricey) and his favorite is his Taylor. I've played it and I generally don't like Taylors, but his is outstanding. So, you should give yourself at least a year, go to as many guitar stores as you can, and you will find the guitar of your dreams. You should also take a look at the Seth Avett Martin D35. Very different and very nice. One day I will add that to my HD35.
That's a great approach, but if you find (what you think might be) the ONE in the first week of that search, buy it! You can flip it later if it's not the actual ONE. Knowing that you walked away from the one could haunt you. Having it will allow you to compare it to other guitars while you continue your search.
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  #148  
Old 01-17-2019, 10:15 PM
Duh Duh is offline
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Here are two 50th Anniversary D35 models I found on Craigslist Los Angeles. One claims it is new and he's selling it for 2300. The other is a Guitar Store Liquidation sale: he doesn't list a price.

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/sg...787262342.html

https://losangeles.craigslist.org/lg...788978043.html
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  #149  
Old 01-17-2019, 11:40 PM
frankhond frankhond is offline
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I didn't read through the whole thread, but another option is the Swedish builder Per Marklund. He builds recreations of pre-war Martins. One of his ideas is to build the bodies during the winter when humidity is lower, to simulate early Martin workshop conditions. I believe that idea came from exchanges with Blazer & Henkes, and his guitars are on par with that kind of quality. There are a few build threads on this forum. And his prices are still reasonable.
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  #150  
Old 01-18-2019, 01:08 AM
Jaden Jaden is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The Kid! View Post
Even trying out a bunch of guitars is tough. Not to bash any of the big chain stores, but often the guitars have terrible setups and are over humidified. Either one of those things can make a stellar guitar sound less than stellar.

Not to mention that you have more than just a couple of choices. Things can become more difficult as the available options increase. There are so many variables even in the best situations.

I like to find a guitar that I like, and go back the next day with fresh ears to see if I still feel the same way. You do run the risk of it getting sold though.
Off on a bit of a tangent here, but considering the original question was posed long ago and this thread has taken a life of its own probably due to the engaging general question ...

Fairly recently I picked up a new 000-18; there was no competition in the acoustic room when I tried it out, and compared to other try outs in the past, this particular guitar seemed ‘good enough’ so it came home with me.

Some two months later this 000-18 has unbelievable singing tone, 3D with deep bass.

I don’t know if trying out new guitars in store indicates much, it seems almost a luck of the draw from this (now) jaw dropping experience.
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