ToneDexter - The Holy Grail!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

I'll admit to having had my on-stage "adventures" with ToneDexter. There have been times when the amplified guitar sound was overly ambient (for my taste, at least) and a little disorienting. I kept experimenting with it, however, and three things have been quite helpful in getting the somewhat more focused sound which I'm seeking.

1) updating my firmware to GEN150 so that I can blend the WaveMap with some dry signal.

2) getting a better training mic (Slate ML-2)

3) experimenting more with training mic positions


Recently, I've been using about an 80% WaveMap/dry blend on stage, but last week I came up with a WaveMap which sounds great to me at 100% full character. Ironically, I trained it with a cheap (laminated back & sides) ebay guitar. I'm reminded that luthier and pickup designer Dave Wendler used to recommend over-built and laminated guitars for amplification because they're not as responsive to speaker sound and the subsequent problems with feedback and muddiness.

In any event, I tried the new WaveMap out in a very "live" setting on Thursday and was quite pleased with what I was hearing on stage at 100% full character. I was also pleased with what I heard in a video recorded from the house side.

https://youtu.be/h285fLE9yls

Yep, I think having the ability to blend in less wavemap was a huge upgrade to the software. I sometimes use as low as 35%. It still sounds like a mic'd guitar but I don't get that hollow, inside the guitar tone. It also doesn't strip the low end like a 100% wavemap typically does. I think of the TD as an internal mic.. a little goes a long way.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

To top it off, sound men now don't expect players to show up and ask for a mic.

This is a big part of the problem. BTW, I have found that adding a battery pack to my ToneDexter makes the setup process easier and quicker, which makes the sound people happier.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Uncle Pauhana

Some of the best “sound men” I’ve known have been women. “Sound man” is a pretty darn outdated term. I just say “sound tech”, usually.

Thank you.

I've said this before, but this forum needs a "Like" button!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

This is a big part of the problem. BTW, I have found that adding a battery pack to my ToneDexter makes the setup process easier and quicker, which makes the sound people happier.

Oh sorry, I was referring to external mics in my post. However, the battery pack idea seems good. I just bring along a Furman power supply with six inputs and a 15' cable.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Oh sorry, I was referring to external mics in my post. However, the battery pack idea seems good. I just bring along a Furman power supply with six inputs and a 15' cable.

Yes, I know you were referring to external mics and agree. My comment about the battery pack was that it makes ToneDexter setup quicker and easier since I don't have to run power cables and find an available outlet. Of course, if you are using other devices that require AC power then the point is moot.

[guitaniac]

Originally Posted by phcorrigan

This is a big part of the problem. BTW, I have found that adding a battery pack to my ToneDexter makes the setup process easier and quicker, which makes the sound people happier.

LOL, I wish I was as smart as you. My power adapter crapped out on me on Thursday and I had to scavenge a power adapter from another device. It definitely annoyed the soundman, and I am the soundman.

On the subject of miking instruments, most of the soundtechs and hosts in my area are still equipped to, and quite willing to, mic instruments. I've heard, however, that miking instruments isn't done at certain Nashville events simply because it slows things down. I presume The Kid could give us more details on that.

[phcorrigan]

Originally Posted by guitaniac

LOL, I wish I was as smart as you. My power adapter crapped out on me on Thursday and I had to scavenge a power adapter from another device. It definitely annoyed the soundman, and I am the soundman.

One thing I really like about the ToneDexter design is that you can use pretty much any DC power supply between 9V and 15V, positive or negative center pin. That makes in much easier to "scavenge" a power adapter when necessary!

[Skip Ellis]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

You can find sound men really anywhere. They are basically hired to mix the sound out front for bands/performers. Every major touring band has one that travels with them. Not every bar will have one but venues that care about their sound typically hire one. The venue I play has a capacity of around 300 people (maybe more) and every Friday/Saturday they have the same hired sound man who sets up the mics and DI's and mixes us out front. The whole process takes about 20 minutes. I have also played festivals with sound men as well.

Not around here you don't and, now that I think about it, I've never, in 50 years, played a venue that's even had a house PA. Of course, I don't play bars and haven't for along time (since I quit smoking) so those places may be different these days. We don't have much of a music scene where I live so it's hard for me to judge.

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by Skip Ellis

Not around here you don't and, now that I think about it, I've never, in 50 years, played a venue that's even had a house PA. Of course, I don't play bars and haven't for along time (since I quit smoking) so those places may be different these days. We don't have much of a music scene where I live so it's hard for me to judge.

It's probably more to do with the venues you play/the area you live. There definitely are small towns that rely on the musicians to bring in their gear. I typically find that for small pubs/restaurants, the owners often want the band to supply the gear or they will have a fairly simple set up with a mixer and two pa speakers.. no sound tech though. Even for outdoor shows, the organizers either go the route of hiring a full sound system and tech or I have even had instances where a sound tech is hired and he brings his gear but it's pretty much the same simple set up that most bands bring (two speakers, two monitors and a mixer). Those are the ones that I hate the most as the person is often hired for their gear and not for their ability to properly run sound. I actually had one mix the band from behind the stage..eek

I am at the stage where I often pick and choose the venues I want to play. Not in a cocky way but we just have good connections with certain bars and event organizers. The bar we most frequently play at has a sound tech (a very good one) and four monitors on stage plus two massive subs and two large pa speakers. However, I also play a few smaller pubs where I bring all of my own gear or I patch my mixer into the pa system that's already there. When I do outdoor shows it's a mixture of me running sound or a full sound tech.

When I said you can find sound techs really anywhere, I didn't mean that they are at every venue, I just meant that they can be anywhere from a pub to an outdoor festival.

[AeroUSA]

I am trying mine out again tonight with an Element pickup. I find that I’m so used to the bright sound of the pickup that the map sounds dull. It also has a lot of low mid that UST pickups don’t have. For this reason I’m experimenting with the EQ and blend controls. Weirdly the Map on full (ch2) sometimes sounds brighter than on 0.

[dcopper]

I did maps for my 814 K&K Taylor and used an SM57, experimenting with several placements. I just try the different character settings or blend until it sounds good to me. I like the K&K blended, usually not full 100% TD. I like the sound so much it makes me wonder what a better mic and different placement will do for me.

I played last Thursday with the TD and MXR234 analog chorus - out to a kicked back BOSE S1. Fabulous sound.
davidc

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I am trying mine out again tonight with an Element pickup. I find that I’m so used to the bright sound of the pickup that the map sounds dull. It also has a lot of low mid that UST pickups don’t have. For this reason I’m experimenting with the EQ and blend controls. Weirdly the Map on full (ch2) sometimes sounds brighter than on 0.

I think there are two issues with a full wavemap blend. One, it cuts out some bass that eq doesn't really bring back in. The Aura imaging does the same thing. It also tends to sound a bit hollow even with a perfect mic placement.

I have said this before but I honestly use about 50% blend or even as low as 35%. Even at that low of a blend, the wavemap is imparting a pretty significant mic-like quality to my pickup but I don't lose that high end/immediacy of the piezo that I like. If you get this in time, you should try a very low blend just to see how you like it.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

I think there are two issues with a full wavemap blend. One, it cuts out some bass that eq doesn't really bring back in. The Aura imaging does the same thing. It also tends to sound a bit hollow even with a perfect mic placement.

I have said this before but I honestly use about 50% blend or even as low as 35%. Even at that low of a blend, the wavemap is imparting a pretty significant mic-like quality to my pickup but I don't lose that high end/immediacy of the piezo that I like. If you get this in time, you should try a very low blend just to see how you like it.

I ended up using CH1 and a 125hz low cut on my mixer. Treble on the TD on 1 or 2. Sounded good!

[Petty1818]

Originally Posted by AeroUSA

I ended up using CH1 and a 125hz low cut on my mixer. Treble on the TD on 1 or 2. Sounded good!

Awesome! I am strongly considering a simple Matrix UST paired with the Tonedexter. I feel like that would be pretty plug and play.

[AeroUSA]

Originally Posted by Petty1818

Awesome! I am strongly considering a simple Matrix UST paired with the Tonedexter. I feel like that would be pretty plug and play.

I used the element tonight but my plan is to use the Fishman AG passive pickup with ToneDexter.