Neumann Singer Songwriter recording videos

[Cuki79]

I don't know if it has been posted already... But I think it is worth sharing.

Please use headphones.

[Al Acuff]

I enjoyed the videos but they don't provide much guidance for someone with a small home studio. Neumann shot the videos in a real recording studio with excellent acoustics. How many of us here have rooms that good?

Unless a small room is treated to the point of becoming nearly anechoic the dueling figure 8 method is useless. The separation you gain by using the figure 8 null is negated by the room reflecting sound back into into the far side of the figure eight which is opposite phase to the front. Ouch!

In a large room with nice acoustics you can sit far from the walls and then dueling figure 8 mics can sound quite good on a singer songwriter. They very sound good in the third of the Neumann videos but after all they own a real recording studio and these videos are mostly about selling you microphones.

[Cuki79]

Originally Posted by Al Acuff

I enjoyed the videos but they don't provide much guidance for someone with a small home studio. Neumann shot the videos in a real recording studio with excellent acoustics. How many of us here have rooms that good?

Unless a small room is treated to the point of becoming nearly anechoic the dueling figure 8 method is useless. The separation you gain by using the figure 8 null is negated by the room reflecting sound back into into the far side of the figure eight which is opposite phase to the front. Ouch!

In a large room with nice acoustics you can sit far from the walls and then dueling figure 8 mics can sound quite good on a singer songwriter. They very sound good in the third of the Neumann videos but after all they own a real recording studio and these videos are mostly about selling you microphones.

Thanks Al, I can’t afford any of those mics anyway...

[jim1960]

If we all had a room like that, it would be a lot easier to get great tracks.

[PANDAPANDELO]

I ahve used some of those techniques today.

The sound is improving... But I really need that room! Hahahhahaha

Thank you very much, Cuki! Great information!

I used the u87ai for vocals in cardioid, and the KM105 (supercardioid) to capture the acoustic guitar.

https://youtu.be/_sJrrPBNLXU

[Fran Guidry]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

Thanks Al, I can’t afford any of those mics anyway...

But you can get multi-pattern dual diaphragm mics for pretty small change.

In this blog post http://www.homebrewedmusic.com/2014/...es-a-mic-make/ you can hear the Rode NT2a - about $400 - and a CAD M179 - about $200. There are comparisons of both mics to a Schoeps CMC64 to give you an idea of the quality you can expect from these very reasonably priced mics.

While you may encounter more small room sound than the Neumann demo, you might surprise yourself with the results, especially if you deploy a pair of broadband absorbers behind the mic array.

I personally think this is a lot better approach than the often suggested use of a low sensitivity mic in hopes that it will magically not hear the room.

Fran

[rockabilly69]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

While you may encounter more small room sound than the Neumann demo, you might surprise yourself with the results, especially if you deploy a pair of broadband absorbers behind the mic array.

I personally think this is a lot better approach than the often suggested use of a low sensitivity mic in hopes that it will magically not hear the room. Fran

I agree 100% with this, I've had great luck with all of these techniques in a lesser room using absorbers!

[ljguitar]

Originally Posted by Cuki79

I don't know if it has been posted already... But I think it is worth sharing.

Hi Cuki

It does not matter if it's been posted before. This is a discussion forum that has been around for years, and new people show up all the time.

I've subscribed to the Neumann channel, and the videos are good. Not as 'how to' videos exactly, but they certainly clearly present some good mic techniques. It's like previews to recording.

I still shake my head at using $1000 mics to record $200 guitars.

If one wants to hear how decent mic techniques do on high end instruments, both Doug Young's channel, and The North American Guitar YouTube channel has amazing short recordings played by outstanding players which are like mini-concerts.

[min7b5]

I really like the single mic recording in the first video the most. As the host mentioned in the video, I remember in the 70's you'd see acoustic singer-songwriters on TV all the time doing this. It's a great sound to me.

Not being a singer myself, it made me wonder what it would be like to add a second LDC to that in a figure eight to create a mid/side track? I'm just imagining it being predominately a mono center mix, but adding a subtle amount of sides too, maybe with with it's won reverb and predelay, to give is a little depth too..

[Al Acuff]

Originally Posted by Fran Guidry

But you can get multi-pattern dual diaphragm mics for pretty small change.

I personally think this is a lot better approach than the often suggested use of a low sensitivity mic in hopes that it will magically not hear the room.

Fran

We all hear things a little differently. That's why there are horse races. For what it's worth I find that the better dynamic mics sound better than cheap condenser mics. Really good condensers cost 2K-3K and up. Really good dynamic mics can be had for 300-900. And they sound better to me. But as I said we all hear differently.

Check out this video with headphones or a good pair of monitors. It demonstrates what I'm saying. The vocal sound here is at least as good as the sound on those Neumann videos. When you consider that he is recording in a small cubical bedroom that's impressive!

[keith.rogers]

Originally Posted by min7b5

I really like the single mic recording in the first video the most. As the host mentioned in the video, I remember in the 70's you'd see acoustic singer-songwriters on TV all the time doing this. It's a great sound to me.

Not being a singer myself, it made me wonder what it would be like to add a second LDC to that in a figure eight to create a mid/side track? I'm just imagining it being predominately a mono center mix, but adding a subtle amount of sides too, maybe with with it's own reverb and predelay, to give is a little depth too..

Single mic technique is not easy - I spent a couple months fooling around with it recently, and certainly makes it obvious how well (or not as it turns out ...) a performer can control their vocal level vis-à-vis with the guitar's. (You can set a mic up optimally, but if they don't keep things consistent, as in the voice tires, they get excited about the guitar part, move too much, etc., it's very hard to fix in post.)

Back in the 60s and 70s (I was there) it was a lot more common for many singer-songwriters to start out performing without any PA, and I suspect they learned to balance their voice and guitar, i.e., so that listeners heard both equally (or reasonably) well. Sticking a mic in front of someone like that is going to be less problematic than using a single mic with someone that has little to no experience doing anything except singing (using the term loosely) into a mic with a plugged in guitar at an open mic, perhaps, or maybe home recording similarly plugged in.

MS always seemed a bit overkill for a small source like a singer-songwriter, especially in a small (home-recording-ish) space. If you have a nice sounding space, sure, try it.