Recording Stereo Acoustic Guitar WITH Vocals

PANDAPANDELO · #1 10-08-2020, 06:20 AM

Have you every tried that?

As some of you know, I am starting to invest in a few microphones to do that project. I like to record myseld in a true performance, while I sing and play. I know that there are a lot of issues, like bleed and phase... but I am really trying to do it in a pleasant way...

I only saw one video on youtube of someone doing that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anBu1Sf_eas (explaining)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUGetr7TLiI (the performance)

Have any of you any experience on this?

Brent Hahn · #2 10-08-2020, 09:53 AM

I've got enough experience to have concluded that it's not worth the trouble.

RRuskin · #3 10-08-2020, 09:58 AM

As stated in the video, you don't try to eliminate bleed. You use it to get a pleasing result. Easier to do if the performer isn't also the engineer but it can be done.

lkingston · #4 10-08-2020, 10:43 AM

I only hear in one ear, so all I hear when people try stereo mic placements is the weird phase issue parts.

The recording sounds really good, but I have my iPad and phone set to mono, so I can’t comment on the stereo aspect. It does sound good summed to mono though, which isn’t always the case.

lkingston · #5 10-08-2020, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RRuskin

As stated in the video, you don't try to eliminate bleed. You use it to get a pleasing result. Easier to do if the performer isn't also the engineer but it can be done.

That is the conclusion I’ve come to as well. You’re not going to separate the parts, so just go for the best blend.

KevWind · #6 10-08-2020, 02:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO

Have you every tried that?

As some of you know, I am starting to invest in a few microphones to do that project. I like to record myseld in a true performance, while I sing and play. I know that there are a lot of issues, like bleed and phase... but I am really trying to do it in a pleasant way...

I only saw one video on youtube of someone doing that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=anBu1Sf_eas (explaining)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NUGetr7TLiI (the performance)

Have any of you any experience on this?

All at the same time ? No I only have 2 channels

Stereo acoustic then dub vocal ? Yes...................

alohachris · #7 10-08-2020, 06:35 PM

Aloha Rodrigo,

Agree with everyone else. Generally not worth it - to me.

Over time, I gained lotsa experience with both Live & Recorded mic placement. And so I tried to play & sing at the same time like For Live & try to get a decent, consistent recording.

Conclusion: I prefer stereo SDC mic's on solo guitar tracks. And I like one or two mic's on a separate guitar track(s) or in stereo when there is a vocal or other instruments involved. It depends on how much "space" is in the mix & where I want to place the tracks.

Realization: I prefer an LDC mic on a separate vocal track for guitar/vocal recordings.

Though I tried for years. I never could play & sing simultaneously through mic's & get the clean, flexible recorded results. So I finally gave in & recorded guitar & voice separately on different tracks. Took some practice. That was THE answer for me.

We've all been or seen so many singer/players over the years who refuse to go with separate tracking as singer-songwriters. They're just stubborn. They try to justify their results, like the explanation here. What it comes down to is compromise: what you can & cannot live with. AND, we are all different in that regard.

I thought when I played & sang simultaneously that the recordings sounded pretty good before editing. But I was mistaken. I realized that I could not fully control the editing of either voice or guitar, or the bleed on a simultaneous track. EX: I could not choose to not put any reverb on vocals (for intimacy), & another FX or reverb type on the guitar (for a contrasting more complete sound) - without bleed interfering. It was a game changer of a limitation. So I finally made the change.

My playing got better. My singing got better. And I learned to put together clean tracks of both that could be enhanced separately through editing & mastering the mix.

And that's alls I knows.

alohachris

PANDAPANDELO · #8 10-13-2020, 09:07 AM

Hi there, everybody!

Just to say that I have tried the method of a "not so spaced" pair, using a Neumann KM184 and a Neumann KMS105 for the acoustic guitar, and the AT2035 for the Vocals. I'm working on getting another KM184 and a better Mic for vocals, and will do a little room treatment, also (AlohaChris is helping me a lot on those quests). I'm learning how to mix, also, so go easy on me. Hahaha!

The song is a brazilian Pagode called "Lua Vai", from a group called Katinguelê:

https://youtu.be/s-wsPz6lB6E

That's the actual result of my "stereo guitar with vocals" experience. I will do better next time.

Rudy4 · #9 10-13-2020, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PANDAPANDELO

Hi there, everybody!

Just to say that I have tried the method of a "not so spaced" pair, using a Neumann KM184 and a Neumann KMS105 for the acoustic guitar, and the AT2035 for the Vocals. I'm working on getting another KM184 and a better Mic for vocals, and will do a little room treatment, also (AlohaChris is helping me a lot on those quests). I'm learning how to mix, also, so go easy on me. Hahaha!

The song is a brazilian Pagode called "Lua Vai", from a group called Katinguelê:

https://youtu.be/s-wsPz6lB6E

That's the actual result of my "stereo guitar with vocals" experience. I will do better next time.

Another option you might want to consider is using a headset cardiod for the vocal. I've been experimenting with doing this and my Shure SM35 gives pretty good results and isolates the vocal very well, there's very little guitar bleed in the vocal track.
In my case I'm recording guitar with a D.I. signal from a K&K Pure Mini transducer. It's a compromise, but sounds OK and makes for a totally isolated guitar track with no vocal bleed. If you want to do a stereo recording of the guitar with mics then at least half your battle is won with the headset mic.

https://youtu.be/oQcmyaOfM5c

PANDAPANDELO · #10 10-13-2020, 06:24 PM

Love your content, Rudy! Subscribed at your channel!

Great tips! I will try a new microphone, probably a TLM 49. I read that it have a very narrow cardioid polar pattern (almost a supercardioid). That will help a lot with the acoustic guitar bleed on vocals.

And I will also work on a couple of panels to help at the room treatment. It will probably give me a huge all around improvement on the sound.

Thank you, Rudy... really great content on your channel.