Using only the left main out of mixer?

activateclint · #1 11-13-2019, 03:43 AM

Hey all I'm a soloist and have an all in one pedalboard with my vocals, stomp, guitar/looper (3 inputs) all neatly routed into a small Behringer xenyx1002fx. It's all mono signals so have been panning all to the left and just running out of the left mains. I think I've noticed
panning is actually overloading the individual channels but when I keep the pan pots at centre the sound isn't as good in a clarity and warmth kinda way.
So my question is should I be keeping the pan at centre and running 2 leads (left and right) to my speaker? Will this utilize perhaps (if it's how it works) both l+r main output preamp and bring that better sound back?
They are unbalanced TS 1/4" outputs and don't sum-to-mono on the left output as far as I'm aware.
Thanks legends!

pieterh · #2 11-13-2019, 03:56 AM

I would start by lowering the gain on the input channel(s) of the mixer.

When you say overloading do you mean the signal is clipping and the sound is distorting? Does the mixer have a headphone out where you can check the sound quality independent of the speaker?

activateclint · #3 11-13-2019, 05:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pieterh

I would start by lowering the gain on the input channel(s) of the mixer.

When you say overloading do you mean the signal is clipping and the sound is distorting? Does the mixer have a headphone out where you can check the sound quality independent of the speaker?

Thanks for the reply!
I have set gain levels by setting channel and master (no pfl) at unity and increasing the gain on the VU lights to 0 also. I think I read somewhere that panning hard left or right adds a few db of overall gain to make up for the lack of the other sides signal. I usually play with the master fader just under unity and and adjust the speaker level to suit the venue.
Yea I should have a test with some headphones for distortion... Tomorrow's job

activateclint · #4 11-13-2019, 05:45 AM

I guess the question is should a mixer like mine be run with both left and right main out leads?

pieterh · #5 11-13-2019, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by activateclint

Hey all I'm a soloist and have an all in one pedalboard with my vocals, stomp, guitar/looper (3 inputs) all neatly routed into a small Behringer xenyx1002fx. It's all mono signals so have been panning all to the left and just running out of the left mains. I think I've noticed

panning is actually overloading the individual channels but when I keep the pan pots at centre the sound isn't as good in a clarity and warmth kinda way.

So my question is should I be keeping the pan at centre and running 2 leads (left and right) to my speaker? Will this utilize perhaps (if it's how it works) both l+r main output preamp and bring that better sound back?

They are unbalanced TS 1/4" outputs and don't sum-to-mono on the left output as far as I'm aware.

Thanks legends!

How is the speaker configured?

I had a quick look at the mixer’s manual and it does say the outputs are unbalanced although they use TRS contacts. Weird. It might be worth trying a trs-XLR adapter in to the speaker all the same.

MarkF_48 · #6 11-13-2019, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pieterh

How is the speaker configured?

I had a quick look at the manual and it does say the outputs are unbalanced although they use TRS contacts. Weird. It might be worth trying a trs-XLR adapter in to the speaker all the same.

I looked at the schematic. While the manual states 'unbalanced', the schematic indicated the Main outs are 'impedance or electronically balanced' (resistor in the low side ring connection) which is a cheap way to allow connection to a balanced input. Control Room outs are configured the same way. Pretty common in mixers at this price point.
https://www.soundonsound.com/sound-a...rmal-balancing

A TRS to XLR would work OK as you suggested.

MikeBmusic · #7 11-13-2019, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by activateclint

Thanks for the reply!
I have set gain levels by setting channel and master (no pfl) at unity and increasing the gain on the VU lights to 0 also. I think I read somewhere that panning hard left or right adds a few db of overall gain to make up for the lack of the other sides signal. I usually play with the master fader just under unity and and adjust the speaker level to suit the venue.
Yea I should have a test with some headphones for distortion... Tomorrow's job

You need to learn how to gainstage properly.

You don't indicate what powered speakers you are using, but most often you want to be at 50-60% on the volume pots on the speakers. Adjust your overall volume with the master fader.

First, adjust your channel gains so they are not clipping - turn up the gain until the clip light comes on momentarily during the loudest "check one-two' or strum, then turn down the gain a notch so the clip light no longer comes on, or only momentarily flickers.
Adjust the channel volumes to unity, adjust the master volume for overall volume, then go back to the channel volumes and adjust them to each other (back off the volume on the loudest ones, don't turn up the softer ones above unity). Adjust the master volume accordingly.

Mr Bojangles · #8 11-13-2019, 08:32 AM

What is meant by unity? Both channels set the same, or set at 12 o'clock?

sdelsolray · #9 11-13-2019, 09:40 AM

What pan law setting is your mixer using (e.g., -3 dB, -4.5 dB, etc)?

RRuskin · #10 11-13-2019, 09:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by activateclint

Thanks for the reply!
I have set gain levels by setting channel and master (no pfl) at unity and increasing the gain on the VU lights to 0 also. I think I read somewhere that panning hard left or right adds a few db of overall gain to make up for the lack of the other sides signal. I usually play with the master fader just under unity and and adjust the speaker level to suit the venue.
Yea I should have a test with some headphones for distortion... Tomorrow's job

There is no law or reason for that matter, to run your mixer to "0." Unless you are clipping at the input, lowering your overall level will keep your signal clean.

ljguitar · #11 11-13-2019, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by activateclint

Hey all I'm a soloist and have an all in one pedalboard with my vocals, stomp, guitar/looper (3 inputs) all neatly routed into a small Behringer xenyx1002fx. It's all mono signals so have been panning all to the left and just running out of the left mains. I think I've noticed
panning is actually overloading the individual channels but when I keep the pan pots at centre the sound isn't as good in a clarity and warmth kinda way.
So my question is should I be keeping the pan at centre and running 2 leads (left and right) to my speaker? Will this utilize perhaps (if it's how it works) both l+r main output preamp and bring that better sound back?
They are unbalanced TS 1/4" outputs and don't sum-to-mono on the left output as far as I'm aware.
Thanks legends!

Hi ac-etc

You using a passive mixer into powered speakers, right? What is your 'stomp'?

If so, then the speakers need their volume set correctly as part of the mix. Some 'distortion' can result from overdriving the speaker(s) as well as individual inputs.

You can use channels centered or panned. Proper order to set them (in the position you plan to operate them) is:

Set the Input Level on each channel (with tone set flat) by playing loudly till it clips slightly and then backing off the input volume. Then set tone of that source. Input level is setting the volume from each source/pedal you bring into the mixer.
When all three channels are set, and then set tone, and mix them to your liking, and repeat the volume process with the Main Output volume just like the channels (till it barely clips with everything at full-bore and then back off).
Set the speaker volume so it's full and not overdriven when you play loudly.

There should be no tonal shift when run fully panned to one side over centered even if there is a volume increase in the panned position. In fact, back in the early days, I used to send one output signal to the power amp and the other to a recorder so I could record gigs.

Hope this helps…

leew3 · #12 11-13-2019, 02:22 PM

Just a quick and appreciative observation that the AGF is a place where lots of well informed folks generously share their wisdom. I'm always impressed by the expertise and graciousness of responses to those like the OP. Well done folks!

lkingston · #13 11-13-2019, 02:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ljguitar

You using a passive mixer into powered speakers, right?

A “passive mixer” is a simple mixer based upon a couple of simple resistors that takes no AC or DC power. What you are describing is just a regular audio mixer.

Here is an example of a passive mixer. Notice that it uses no power.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...E&gclsrc=aw.ds

Here are some more passive mixers:

https://avlifesavers.com/custom.htm

lkingston · #14 11-13-2019, 02:56 PM

I would pan everything center and then use either channel. The thing is that the gain structure is designed around everything being panned center. Panning everything to one side will give you an extra 3db per channel. Probably no big deal on a mix with just a couple of channels, but theoretically, you are mixing too hot on that side.

ljguitar · #15 11-13-2019, 08:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lkingston

A “passive mixer” is a simple mixer based upon a couple of simple resistors that takes no AC or DC power. What you are describing is just a regular audio mixer.

Hi - sorry lk I misspoke. Good catch…

I obviously meant a mixer with no built-in amplifier. And it's what the original poster was describing.