Column Array vs. Traditional Speaker Cabs

[gfa]

Have you used both a column array (Bose L1, etc.) and traditional speaker cabinets? I'd appreciate your input as I embark on research & a potential purchase. I am looking to upgrade from our current speakers - (2X) EV ELX112P. The EVs sound ok, but I like really good sounding audio and have some funds I can apply to this. You know, GAS. No one near me has much inventory or a good place to audition gear, so your thoughts will help me focus my research and perhaps keep me from wearing out my welcome at the shop.

Application is a 4 or 5 piece band. Three of us sing and play string instruments into a single LDC mic. Cellist plugs into the board. Drummer is with us sometimes, and is never mic'd. We don't play very loud. Low level cover band.

My goals in upgrading are mostly just better quality audio. I also have some slight hope of reducing the SPL of unwanted sound at the mic (i.e., the reflected audio from the room and the spill from the back of the cabinets) in the hope of being able to get a little more volume out of our single mic approach.

Budget is around $2000-$2500.

What are the pros & cons of a column array vs. traditional cabinets? Thanks!

[Gordon Currie]

Traditional cabinet.
Pros: 1000s of choices, more speaker for the money than column, more people know how to work with them.

Cons: coverage pattern usually tighter, more volume falloff with distance (nearby listeners may feel it's too loud and far away listeners feel it's too quiet), generally need to supplement with monitor system increasing $ and complexity.

Column.
Pros: Wide coverage, more consistent volume throughout room, often big weight difference, ease of setup esp in tight places, may be able to forego monitors completely.

Cons: More expensive pound for pound, limited number of companies, not as much choice (yet) in form factors and features.

There is a member JayBee1404 who just posted about using a Bose L1 with Ear Trumpet Labs mikes in an adjacent thread:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=506401

You might want to ask them for specific thoughts since their application seems to resemble yours.

[Captain Jim]

Most of the column arrays are designed for one instrument/vocalist; that is how I am using my Bose L1C. I previously used a powered mixer with 15s/horn cabinets... because that is what we used in my rock band days.

The really big difference is in the ease and speed of set-up with the Bose; well that's why I originally bought it. What I discovered after using it - and with how you've described your use - is the big difference in volume. With the cabinets, I filled the room with volume. At first, I tried to do the same with the Bose, but found that isn't the best use for that - the array gives great sound throughout the room without having to blast the sound out. You can play at a lower volume and still get great sound.

No need for monitors - with the array behind you, you hear what the audience hears. The array spreads the sound around, so you are not blasting the people up front and losing sound to those in the back.

I have used the L1C with groups up to 150, indoors and out. Generally a happy hour or after dinner situation (corporate gigs) where the people are talking and drinking, but certainly not a rowdy bar environment. Mostly attentive. Since switching to the Bose 8 years ago, I have gotten plenty of comments like "Good sound with out being too loud." It works for what I do.

What the array can't do as well as the cabinets (on stands) is blast out the sound if that is your need. Since you mentioned that you don't play very loud, I think you would find an array would be great for your use.

I didn't trade the cabinet rig for the Bose - I kept it "just in case." After about 3 uses with the Bose, I sold the traditional PA... haven't regretted it or missed it at all.

I would imagine you will hear from those who don't care for an array type PA, so it would be best if you auditioned one... but from your described usage, I think it would work well for you.

[Chriscom]

Gordon Currie, that is a great summary.

The dispersion of a stick system can be amazing. I saw this group, Liberty Street, at a winery this winter in Northern Virginia (they are great, book them). The wide shot doesn't include a bar directly to my back (and a loft over my head, which I didn't climb into). The fidelity of the sound even that wide out was outstanding; a traditional speaker setup would have a very hard time competing with it in this configuration. If they were set up at the long end pointing at me, it'd be easier, but then you'd have to blast the people in front of them a bit to reach folks way in back. As Gordon said, sticks are supposed to do a better job of throwing sound evenly throughout the room.

This is a Bose L1 System--I'm afraid I don't know if it's the Bose L1 Model 1S or an L1 Model 2. It definitely has the B2 bass module; Model 2 + B2 = $2699, and you'd still need a mixer.

Edit: I want to add that the second is shot from my table that day, front row. We were not blasted at all. We had to speak up a bit to each other to be heard, but it was fine (and we were there at least partly for the music lol).

[gfa]

Originally Posted by Gordon Currie

Traditional cabinet.
Pros: 1000s of choices, more speaker for the money than column, more people know how to work with them.

Cons: coverage pattern usually tighter, more volume falloff with distance (nearby listeners may feel it's too loud and far away listeners feel it's too quiet), generally need to supplement with monitor system increasing $ and complexity.

Column.
Pros: Wide coverage, more consistent volume throughout room, often big weight difference, ease of setup esp in tight places, may be able to forego monitors completely.

Cons: More expensive pound for pound, limited number of companies, not as much choice (yet) in form factors and features.

There is a member JayBee1404 who just posted about using a Bose L1 with Ear Trumpet Labs mikes in an adjacent thread:
http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=506401

You might want to ask them for specific thoughts since their application seems to resemble yours.

Thank you, Gordon. We don't use monitors, but wouldn't mind hearing a bit more of the PA, so that's a potential plus.

[gfa]

Originally Posted by Captain Jim

Most of the column arrays are designed for one instrument/vocalist; that is how I am using my Bose L1C. I previously used a powered mixer with 15s/horn cabinets... because that is what we used in my rock band days.

The really big difference is in the ease and speed of set-up with the Bose; well that's why I originally bought it. What I discovered after using it - and with how you've described your use - is the big difference in volume. With the cabinets, I filled the room with volume. At first, I tried to do the same with the Bose, but found that isn't the best use for that - the array gives great sound throughout the room without having to blast the sound out. You can play at a lower volume and still get great sound.

No need for monitors - with the array behind you, you hear what the audience hears. The array spreads the sound around, so you are not blasting the people up front and losing sound to those in the back.

I have used the L1C with groups up to 150, indoors and out. Generally a happy hour or after dinner situation (corporate gigs) where the people are talking and drinking, but certainly not a rowdy bar environment. Mostly attentive. Since switching to the Bose 8 years ago, I have gotten plenty of comments like "Good sound with out being too loud." It works for what I do.

What the array can't do as well as the cabinets (on stands) is blast out the sound if that is your need. Since you mentioned that you don't play very loud, I think you would find an array would be great for your use.

I didn't trade the cabinet rig for the Bose - I kept it "just in case." After about 3 uses with the Bose, I sold the traditional PA... haven't regretted it or missed it at all.

I would imagine you will hear from those who don't care for an array type PA, so it would be best if you auditioned one... but from your described usage, I think it would work well for you.

Interesting, helpful, thanks.

[Chriscom]

Most of the column arrays are designed for one instrument/vocalist;

This is not a unanimous view.. They certainly sound terrific with one instrument + vocalist, but even accounting for setups where one person can easily find reason for more than two inputs, I think with things like the Bose Tonematch T1 or T4 and the T8 mixers (respectively 4 channels, 4 channels, 8 channels), you'd be hard pressed to convince many performers where I live that a column array is just for one person.

Another example would be the HK Audio Lucas Nano 608i

http://www.fullcompass.com/prod/5120...UCAS-NANO-608i

Which is billed as having 8 inputs; I'll throw out the two RCAs and call it 6. This is not a unit destined to be used "only" by one person--though of course depending on the job, having more would be lovely.

I've seen various Bose L1s used around the DC area, and not once with just one person. They sound great--if you know how to use them, like the two guys shown above. Around the same time I saw another Bose L1, a single array, at a different winery: Three instruments and two vocalists simultaneously. Sounded terrific.

A full four-piece cover band that I sit in with at a big noisy bar, yeah that could be pushing it. (They use traditional cabinets except for the drummer, who uses... drums).

My lowest-level Bose L1 Compact: I think all I'd want to push through it would be my voice, my guitar, my female vocalist and her keyboards, in a winery type setup.

[lkingston]

I tried my L1 system with a local band at an outdoor venue the other day. it sounded wonderful until the lead guitar turned way up. The L1 can get loud enough, it just can't do it behind the mics. After that it was feedback city. Keep in mind that the volume and coverage was perfect before he turned up. The L1 behind the mics just couldn't keep up with ear bleed stage amp levels. We moved the L1 to a front of house position and then it was fine except that we lost the advantage of not needing monitors. It was a shame because aside from being to loud, his playing was excellent. Telling him to turn down had no effect on his levels.

I dont know how many electric guitarists realize it but when they turn up like that the area coverage gets really uneven with some people hearing nothing but ear splitting guitar and those at the outskirts of the PA coverage not really hearing any guitar at all. it may sound great to the guy playing. but it doesn't to anyone else.

[UglyEarly]

I have a few PA's and the rig I'm using for my smaller shows is a TurboSound IP2000 (pair). It is phenomenal. Truly. I normally have 2-3 acoustic guitars and sometimes a bass and 2-4 vocal mics running through a pair of these (which can be purchased for $2000 or $999 for one) and they fill the room as stated above with no hot spots and no need for monitors. For the money, I find it impossible to beat. My kids put them out by the pool and Bluetooth their phones to them and play hip hop through them and the bass is incredible for outside. The clarity is pristine.
I use a Midas M32 for a mixer but the IP2000 has a two channel mixer built in.
A Behringer X-Air would be a great small mixer to add to this for the setup you describe unless you can get by with the onboard mixer. It is very similar to the Midas.

https://www.sweetwater.com/store/det...inspire-ip2000

Read the reviews. I bet you will be thrilled if you get one or two of these.

Jeff

[MikeBmusic]

The one thing I'm reading here - is no one using a stick when they have a drummer. Even a 'quiet' (is there such a thing) drummer, will end up bringing the overall volume needs up.
Mentioning the 'lead guitar' issue - this can be an issue with an acoustic lead guitar, too - I've had a Bose L1 feed back on me when I tried to turn my Taylor bass EQ up a little.
No question that a stick will spread the sound out better and not blast the folks in front - which is great for a place where the background noise is not too loud.