Thoughts, experiences, and opinions requested...

[Gitfiddlemann]

He said that he prefers spruce to cedar, but his advice is to stick with cedar if that's what the customer thinks he prefers.

That's good advice. It really is a personal choice.
I've had both, and currently have spruce only. My next one () will be a cedar top, and a rosewood back. Cedar, when built right, adds a natural element of warmth that is nice to draw on. All very subjective of course.

Interestingly, he doesn't specify either a cedar or mahogany neck. He simply has the builder in Spain use whichever is the higher grade on hand. He says the Flamenco Negras nearly always have cedar necks, because that's what the builders traditionally use for flamencos, but it's 50/50 as to which wood will be used for the TP-30 necks, and he feels there is zero tonal difference between the two. He just wants the best piece of wood, whether cedar or mahogany.

Agree with that too. Neck shape, (along with depth/width dimensions) is what I would want to know in advance. The tonal considerations reside mostly in the soundbox.

[Red_Label]

I really liked the FCWE and my two 55FCEs, but their main advantage is comfort, especially if you stand and play. Plugged-in, the sound between the Espana series and the Luthier series is the same, since they use the same Fishman preamps (which I love). But unplugged, the thicker-bodied Luthiers are more robust and punchy. Right now I'm only playing my F10 and GK Pro cypress daily. I just love them. Even when I'm in the mood to play classical anymore, I'll pick up the F10 over my C12 SP/IN. The C12 is definitely more suited to classical, but I've just developed such a relationship with the two flamencos that I'm comfortable there. May sell-off my C12 at some point. Too nice of a guitar to have sitting ina closet unplayed.

[H165]

I absolutely love the Cordoba; particularly the original cypress 55, however:

I think anyone looking at the above array of guitars should also be looking at the Carvin products. They make a SUPER cedar-top crossover, the CL450, in various finishes and options. They might even make you a custom for less than a "famous maker" production model. There's one for sale here right now :

http://www.acousticguitarforum.com/f...d.php?t=450485

[VLJ]

H165, I've owned at least a dozen custom Carvin guitars, and an equal number of Carvin amps. Among those many Carvin guitars was a Korean-built Cobalt C980T, and a cedar-top CL450.

Without a doubt, if I was primarily going to play plugged in then the CL450 would by the one to get. Other than maybe one of the Godins, nothing can touch that Carvin for great playability in a nylon. Unfortunately, I'm at the other end of the spectrum now, in that I will only be playing unplugged, so this next guitar's natural acoustic tone is my primary concern, and the CL450's unplugged tone won't even hang with something like the Cordoba 55FCE, never mind things like the GK Pro Negra or a Pavan TP-30.

After talking with Tom Prisloe a couple times over the past few days, I'm now down to ordering a Pavan and waiting until spring to receive it, or grabbing one of the Cordobas, either the CK Pro Negra or one of the Espana Series cutaways. I saw a mint used 55FCWE, which sells for $1,999 new, for only $850 yesterday on e-bay. I also saw a clean used 55FCE for the same price, so now I'm debating the wisdom of purchasing a new Cordoba when clean used ones can be had so cheaply.

The flipside is, wow, the resale value on these Cordobas is fairly abysmal. Just another factor to consider, but it certainly pushes me towards buying used rather than new.

[dkstott]

I may be in the minority here. But the last thing I think about when buying a guitar is what it's re-sale value might be.

My GK studio got used at least 2 hours a day, plus weekly gatherings and occasional guitar camps for 6-9 months. Then, I traded it in for about half of what I paid for it. Considering that I got a tons of use out of it has to be considered when selling a guitar.

The GK Pro Negra is now getting just as much if not more play than the GK Studio.

[dkstott]

I seem to be in the same boat as you. My C10 is currently collecting dust, while my GK Pro is in constant use. I'll probably sell my C10 after the holidays.

Originally Posted by Red_Label

I really liked the FCWE and my two 55FCEs, but their main advantage is comfort, especially if you stand and play. Plugged-in, the sound between the Espana series and the Luthier series is the same, since they use the same Fishman preamps (which I love). But unplugged, the thicker-bodied Luthiers are more robust and punchy. Right now I'm only playing my F10 and GK Pro cypress daily. I just love them. Even when I'm in the mood to play classical anymore, I'll pick up the F10 over my C12 SP/IN. The C12 is definitely more suited to classical, but I've just developed such a relationship with the two flamencos that I'm comfortable there. May sell-off my C12 at some point. Too nice of a guitar to have sitting ina closet unplayed.

[Red_Label]

Originally Posted by dkstott

I may be in the minority here. But the last thing I think about when buying a guitar is what it's re-sale value might be.

My GK studio got used at least 2 hours a day, plus weekly gatherings and occasional guitar camps for 6-9 months. Then, I traded it in for about half of what I paid for it. Considering that I got a tons of use out of it has to be considered when selling a guitar.

The GK Pro Negra is now getting just as much if not more play than the GK Studio.

Same thing here. Resale value plays very little role in my decision when buying a new or used piece of gear. I just want something that moves me at the time. Those that do, stay. Those that don't get trafed/sold. It's part of the journey and experience for me. Considering the amount of electric and acoustic gear that's moved through my hands... it certainly would have served me well financially to always buy low and sell high. But I'm not a handwringer about stuff. I only have so much time on planet earth to experience the myriad of things that interest me. I don't have the interest in wasting a bunch of time flip-flopping back and forth on whether to buy something or not. I just want to reach over the fence, grab a handful of grass, and see if it's as green as it looks. Sometimes it is... sometimes it isn't. I roll the dice and move on.

[lpa53]

For a few hundred more, or less if used, you could consider a New World cutaway model. I have a Kenny Hill New World and think it is far above most others I've played in that price range.

[VLJ]

Ipa53, I've looked into the affordable, Chinese-built Kenny Hill models. For the same money I think I'd rather have the custom-spec'd, Spanish-built Pavan, personally set up by Tom Prisloe. I just don't know that I'm willing to wait until spring, though, which is the soonest he can deliver it, and this may push me to the Cordoba.

GK Pro Negra vs 55FCWE Reissue, that's where I'm at now. If the GK Pro had the 55's thicker neck and slightly more contoured neck heel, that would be the one. Since it doesn't have the same neck and heel, however, I'm currently leaning towards the 55, even knowing it's not quite as loud and punchy as the deeper-body GK Pro.

Sure wish Cordoba offered a cedar top, solid rosewood body cutaway, but they don't. Spruce is all they offer in solid wood cutaways, so spruce it will be.

[lpa53]

Originally Posted by VLJ

Ipa53, I've looked into the affordable, Chinese-built Kenny Hill models. For the same money I think I'd rather have the custom-spec'd, Spanish-built Pavan, personally set up by Tom Prisloe. I just don't know that I'm willing to wait until spring, though, which is the soonest he can deliver it, and this may push me to the Cordoba.

GK Pro Negra vs 55FCWE Reissue, that's where I'm at now. If the GK Pro had the 55's thicker neck and slightly more contoured neck heel, that would be the one. Since it doesn't have the same neck and heel, however, I'm currently leaning towards the 55, even knowing it's not quite as loud and punchy as the deeper-body GK Pro.

Sure wish Cordoba offered a cedar top, solid rosewood body cutaway, but they don't. Spruce is all they offer in solid wood cutaways, so spruce it will be.

Before purchasing my Kenny Hill from R. Brune in Evanston, IL, I actually bought and returned one of Tom Prisloe's Pavan guitars. I was surprised to find I just didn't like the workmanship. Something about it was just not right. That could have been an anomaly of course, but I do know that Kenny Hill looked into using Spanish builders for his New World designs but decided that the workmanship there was just not what it used to be.

I'll also mention that, like you, though I play both steel and nylon, and don't play classical music, I prefer to go with the true classical rather than a crossover. And like you, I would have prefered a cedar top.

The good news is that Prisloe did accept the return with no problem.

At the time of my Kenny Hill purchase I had only been able to try out the lower end Cordoba models and some Lorientes, which I liked better than the Cordobas. Had I not played the Kenny Hill guitar, and had access to the upper end Cordoba's I might have given one of them or a Loriente a go.

[ewalling]

I've owned the TH5C, and, no doubt, it's a gorgeous beast. But like you, my primary concern was the acoustic sound, and this thing was built like a tank, with its heavy electronics and structure. For this reason, I'd probably incline towards the Cordoba. Actually, I have a cutaway classical on order right now from MF. It's the Kremona S63CW, which is a solid-topped crossover, having a radiused fretboard and narrower nut width. It also has a shorter scale neck. However, it's a bit more humble than the ones you are looking at, having laminate back and sides, but I owned a Kremona once before and was very impressed with it.

[zhunter]

$1500? Kenny Hill or Francisco Navarro. Camps if you go flamenco.

hunter

[VLJ]

zhunter, I'm fairly up to speed now on Kenny Hill's New World product line, but I can't find any Navarro cutaways. His website doesn't list any.

Does Navarro offer a solid woods cutaway with a 50mm nut width?

[VLJ]

So I went and played the 55FCE, GK Studio, GK Studio Negra, C5, C5-CE, C7, and C9 again today. The more I played them all, the more it became evident that I greatly prefer the comfort factor of the 55FCE. It has the most solid, consistent, reassuring neck, and the best overall ergonomics; it's simply the most user-friendly package. I also found that I was again shocked by how full, loud, and punchy that thing is, despite the slim body. In fact, by the end of today's session I realized that the 55 is actually louder and fuller than the GKs over 75% of the fretboard, with the GKs being louder/fuller/punchier only on the low E string, and even then, not by all that much. Everywhere else, the 55 actually sounded better to me. I couldn't believe it, but it's so much more lively and dynamic. It clearly has more of a bell-like chime, as well as more of a natural reverb surrounding the three nylon strings, especially in the upper register.

Yes, the C7, C9, C5, and C5-CE all have a bigger, deeper tone than the GK Studios or the 55, but it's mostly only apparent on the low E and A strings. From the G string on up, and especially higher on the fretboard, the 55 is their equal.

Here's the kicker, though, and this is what matters most, at least to me. The 55 is far and away the most fun to play. Some of it is the much greater comfort, some of it is its unique tone, and some of it is its much higher overall "cool" factor, but the bottom line is the 55 is the one that calls to me and makes me want to play. Whenever I was playing the others, I almost couldn't wait to swap back to the 55. Whenever I swapped back to the 55, it always knocked me out with how great it sounds, and the body practically vanishes beneath my arm.

It checked off all my boxes, despite my previous "must-have" criteria: solid rosewood body, cedar top, no thinlines.

Mind you, this is all unplugged, too. The thinline 55s are designed to excel with amplification, sacrificing a degree of natural acoustic tone in exchange for greater comfort on stage, and less feedback when amplified. Even so, I preferred the acoustic tone of that thin little 55 to the majority of the full-bodied instruments. It gives up a bit in some areas, but takes it back (and then some) in others. Plugged in, it ought to be the hands-down winner.

With the exception of a Carvin CL450 I had many years ago, I am almost completely new to nylons, and this little journey I've been on this past month has been chock full of surprises. Every time I thought I had narrowed down what I wanted, my hands and ears would steer me in another direction, until I finally landed on a spruce top, solid cypress body, 2.5" deep, stage-focused flamenco guitar.

"Hey, VLJ, just so you know, that 55FCE you played has a laminate flamed maple body, not solid cypress."

Yep, but that's not the guitar I decided to buy. This time, I decided to look for a deal. I'm always selling mint condition, same-as-new guitars to people; guitars that I purchased new, and took a huge bath on every time I sold them. For once, I wanted to be the guy getting the great deal, instead of giving it.

The Espana Series Cordoba that I really wanted was the FCWE, the lone Espana cutaway model with solid woods, and it also offers the higher-end headstock, plus a cooler rosette. Instead of the FCE's $1,399 pricetag, the FCWE climbs all the way up to $2K.

I didn't want to pay $2K. Maybe for a new, custom-spec'd Pavan I'd pay $2K, but if I'm being honest, I'm not good enough to justify spending $2K again on another guitar, especially an acoustic. I've been playing blues on electrics for thirty years and I'm still nothing special, so I'm sure to be a complete trainwreck on a nylon acoustic. Classical-flamenco lifers like Red_Label and riffmeister can easily justify the expense of really good nylons, but I can't...or shouldn't.

So, screw it. Rather than pay $2K for a Pavan or even a new FCWE, I just pulled the trigger on this...

https://reverb.com/item/2998362-cord...-guitar-w-case

$1,000, shipped. A solid-woods FCWE in supposedly dead-mint condition, and it includes the humi-case.

I have to say, this one is a little easier to swallow.

[dkstott]

Yay, for you!! The most important thing is that you are happy with the guitar. Keep us posted on your guitar!!