Yet another worship amp question

[PTony]

Any fellow worship guitarist who lead or play lead rhythm parts? Like many, I’ve been swapping gear for years now and seem to go through different stages. I’m somewhat underwhelmed as of late running my current rig out to our mixing board (Allen and Heath GL2400-32).

I play clean with ambient tones the majority of the time, but do like the option of a transparent OD depending on the song. We do a lot of Jesus Culture, All Sons and Daughters, Hillsongs etc.

Currently I'm running my Reverend, CP Jag, or E Series Jap Strat through my board (pic below), with the final “pedal” being the Radial JDX direct drive out to the board. I added this in hopes of removing the need for an amp. Didn’t seem to cure my ills lol. I’ve been using it since November of last year so I’ve given it some time.

I’ve removed the Cool Cat and am in search of an MXR M234 Analog Chorus. I’ve also sold the Bogner, which will soon be replaced by a JHS morning Glory.

I do like the radial JDX for the DI/amp modeler ... but I’m obviously lacking tones that I’m getting at home through my Egnater Tweaker 15 head and 2 Egnater 1x12 cabs stacked. I sold my TRRI as I’ve had major back surgery and couldn’t lift it anymore. Not to mention it was WAY to much amp for what I needed.

Anyway, I digress. At this point I believe I need to ADD a low wattage tube amps like the blues breaker 15, Blues Jr (had a stock one years back and was not impressed...but have heard some that have been modded that sounded good), or Solid State amps, or possibly even a modeler like a Mustang, or Katana. POSSIBLY. Not sure I’d want to do away with my pedal board but who knows.

I’m not interested in PODS/Floor modeling units as I don’t have the patience or time to tweak and save patches.

Any input/advice based on personal experience would be appreciated. Obviously I need to take my guitars and try out some different amp options, but with so many forums, reviews, etc it becomes a bit overwhelming. So, I thought I’d see if there was a “general consensus” here that may help me narrow down some options.

[guitararmy]

I'm also not patient enough to program a Line 6 floorboard effects unit, so I just use one and work around the presets.

One of the best sounding units I've heard that seems easy to use is the Boss ME-70, which one of my associates at church uses like a regular pedalboard without programming it.

Anyway, good luck on your search for the right pedals for your sound!

[Steel and wood]

You won't be able to use your pedal board if you choose a solid state amp.

I've got a Fender Mustang which pretty much ticks all of my boxes (even though I only use it selectively for its Fender amp settings and sparingly for one or two of its inbuilt effects), and it sounds great but a Fender Blues Junior is on my radar as a tube amp accompaniment. (I was impressed enough when I played one).

Having said that, there will be guitarists on this board who own, have played and/or experimented with a lot more amps than I have.

Good luck!

[Gary1953]

Of the tube amps I’ve used in church over the years, my favorites are a 1972 Silverface Fender Deluxe Reverb and a Vox AC15. They would serve you well. I’ve used a Fender Blues Junior but it sounded boxy. Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and Deville amps were meh.

But over the past three year, I’ve played Peavey USA made TransTube amps. A Bandit, a Studio Pro and an Envoy. They are all lightweight combos. Great tone, light weight and reliable.

I use a pedal board with these amps.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by PTony

Any fellow worship guitarist who lead or play lead rhythm parts?...

I play clean with ambient tones the majority of the time, but do like the option of a transparent OD depending on the song...

I’m obviously lacking tones that I’m getting at home through my Egnater Tweaker 15 head and 2 Egnater 1x12 cabs stacked....

Anyway, I digress. At this point I believe I need to ADD a low wattage tube amps like the Bluesbreaker 15, Blues Jr. ...Not sure I’d want to do away with my pedal board but who knows.

Any input/advice based on personal experience would be appreciated...

When I first started reading your post I was going to suggest a Bugera V22 1x12" combo - that's what I used on my last worship-team gig, with the same Cool Cat trem you're looking to ditch - but since you already own an Egnater Tweaker that's giving you the tones you're after, I don't understand why you're not using it. I've also found that, in this particular setting, less is more - if you've got good tubes, a smooth-sounding speaker with extended frequency range at both ends of the spectrum (I don't like British-voiced speakers for CCM/P&W - too "in your face" and nasal for my taste), and you know how to use your controls at both ends of the signal chain, IME you'll need fewer of those stompboxes than you think...

[PTony]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

When I first started reading your post I was going to suggest a Bugera V22 1x12" combo - that's what I used on my last worship-team gig, with the same Cool Cat trem you're looking to ditch - but since you already own an Egnater Tweaker that's giving you the tones you're after, I don't understand why you're not using it. I've also found that, in this particular setting, less is more - if you've got good tubes, a smooth-sounding speaker with extended frequency range at both ends of the spectrum (I don't like British-voiced speakers for CCM/P&W - too "in your face" and nasal for my taste), and you know how to use your controls at both ends of the signal chain, IME you'll need fewer of those stompboxes than you think...

I agree regarding the British voiced amps. I’m not opposed to using my Tweaker. In fact I’ve thought about splitting my cabs up, buying another Tweaker head and having matching rigs for stage and home use.

I have a bit more minimal rig at home pedal wise (not that my stage board is huge). And I agree “less is more”. I honestly feel I could get by with my delay, reverb, possibly a boost (ep booster?) transparent dirt, and a compressor.

At home I use a dispatch master and a tube screamer with my Tweaker and 2 Egnater 1x12’s. That’s it. And overall I’m very satisfied with the tones. The Tweaker really are fantastic amps. I’d of loved a line out, but that’s not not a huge deal I guess.

I have owned the older model V22, and the newer infinuim V22 and V55 (great headroom, but overkill...I gave it to my Father). They’re decent amps for sure. And offer a lot of features for the money. But all three of them suffered from tube rattle (which in my experience, is due to poor tube placement in relation to the speaker, although I could be wrong). And the reliability with Bugera has been spotty for me. Not that there isn’t good and bad in every manufacturer.

Maybe the answer is right in front of me. I do appreciate the input.

[PTony]

Originally Posted by Gary1953

I’ve used a Fender Blues Junior but it sounded boxy. that has been my experience with them also. I also tried a bad cat “cougar”...with the same boxy effect. It even had an upgraded speaker.

But over the past three year, I’ve played Peavey USA made TransTube amps. A Bandit, a Studio Pro and an Envoy. They are all lightweight combos. Great tone, light weight and reliable.

I’ve read others who’ve said similarly. Might have to check them out also.

[Steely Glen]

I’m not sure what your budget is but lots of guys are finding the Line 6 Helix to be a game changer. I’m one of them. Over on The Gear Page, we have a thread going of about 40,000+ posts about P&W rigs and the Helix has made dozens of believers out of P&W players. It’s remarkably intuitive and the Helix Edit software is super easy to use. As a result, I sold off about $5K in pedals and amps over the last 2 years. All that’s left is a DRRI and a few boutique drive pedals, neither of which have gotten any use lately. For the Helix, check out Worship Tutorials or Alex Strabala’s YouTube channel to see the tones they’re getting for P&W.

Otherwise, if you’d prefer to keep your pedals, the Kemper is hard to beat. I don’t have one but I’ll admit, they sound amazing. The Tone Junkies and Troy Strahan (“Guitar for His Glory”) have done a lot on their respective YouTube channels with the Kemper in a P&W setting.

Bottom line, if you can live without an amp, I’d highly recommend it.

[perttime]

What's it for?
You are also going straight to the board, so the amp is a personal monitor. Right?
How much, or how little power do you need?
I understood that light weight is a plus.

Some of the current analog solid state amps might do it. Roland's Blues Cube, DV Mark combos or heads, Vox MV50 Clean, there's others.

[Steve DeRosa]

Originally Posted by PTony

...I have owned the older model V22, and the newer infinuim V22 and V55 (great headroom, but overkill...I gave it to my father). They’re decent amps for sure. And offer a lot of features for the money. But all three of them suffered from tube rattle (which in my experience, is due to poor tube placement in relation to the speaker, although I could be wrong). And the reliability with Bugera has been spotty for me. Not that there isn’t good and bad in every manufacturer...

Voice of experience here: it's not the placement, it's the $1.29 POS factory tubes that are the weak link in the entire Bugera lineup - I swapped a set of Preferred Series pre/power tubes into my V22 in 2010, and not even a hint of a problem since; just for the record I installed an Eminence Swamp Thang at the same time (used it on a gig last night - makes this 22W combo sound like a 50-60W 2x12") and if there was going to be any tube rattle this speaker would have disclosed it immediately. Sorry about your bad experience - the first-run (pre-2010) V22/55 combos had some notorious QC problems that Bugera is just about beginning to live down - but IME (I own an Infinium V5, I've played the new V22, and one of my bandbuds is considering the latter) I've yet to encounter any issues other than weight; these things are built like tanks, the 12-pound speaker puts the total package weight well into the mid-fifties (definitely heavier than my 50-pound Fender Frontman 212R - and that's 100W in a blackface Twin-size cab), and I'm not getting any younger - but man, this puppy has tone...

[PTony]

Originally Posted by Steve DeRosa

Voice of experience here: it's not the placement, it's the $1.29 POS factory tubes that are the weak link in the entire Bugera lineup - I swapped a set of Preferred Series pre/power tubes into my V22 in 2010, and not even a hint of a problem since; just for the record I installed an Eminence Swamp Thang at the same time (used it on a gig last night - makes this 22W combo sound like a 50-60W 2x12") and if there was going to be any tube rattle this speaker would have disclosed it immediately. Sorry about your bad experience - the first-run (pre-2010) V22/55 combos had some notorious QC problems that Bugera is just about beginning to live down - but IME (I own an Infinium V5, I've played the new V22, and one of my bandbuds is considering the latter) I've yet to encounter any issues other than weight; these things are built like tanks, the 12-pound speaker puts the total package weight well into the mid-fifties (definitely heavier than my 50-pound Fender Frontman 212R - and that's 100W in a blackface Twin-size cab), and I'm not getting any younger - but man, this puppy has tone...

Interesting info you’ve posted. I appreciate you sharing your personal experience with me. Unfortunately, I had issues with not only the older version...I also had the newer 22 infinium have reverb issues. I exchanged it and “upgraded” to the V55 infinium. Within a month I couldn’t switch channels. Not by the footswitch or the button on the amp. It was shipped to Bugera to be repaired under warranty. They had it for nearly 3 months. It seemed fine once I got it back but by then I’d moved on. Although, the jewel light didn’t light up after it was returned. My Dad loved it so I gave it to him.

I had read others who loved theirs as well. And many have raved that after a tube/speaker change they were dynamite. I don’t doubt that. I even considered trying the V5 as an option...I’d just been a bit put off by the qc.

[PTony]

Originally Posted by Steely Glen

I’m not sure what your budget is but lots of guys are finding the Line 6 Helix to be a game changer. I’m one of them. Over on The Gear Page, we have a thread going of about 40,000+ posts about P&W rigs and the Helix has made dozens of believers out of P&W players. It’s remarkably intuitive and the Helix Edit software is super easy to use. As a result, I sold off about $5K in pedals and amps over the last 2 years. All that’s left is a DRRI and a few boutique drive pedals, neither of which have gotten any use lately. For the Helix, check out Worship Tutorials or Alex Strabala’s YouTube channel to see the tones they’re getting for P&W.

Otherwise, if you’d prefer to keep your pedals, the Kemper is hard to beat. I don’t have one but I’ll admit, they sound amazing. The Tone Junkies and Troy Strahan (“Guitar for His Glory”) have done a lot on their respective YouTube channels with the Kemper in a P&W setting.

Bottom line, if you can live without an amp, I’d highly recommend it.

As much as I’d love to try/own a Helix or a Kemper, my wife and I just paid our orthodontist a very large sum of cash for 2 kids to have braces and be paid in full. In addition, we have our oldest in college... so I’m not in Helix or Kemper territory yet. That being said I’d heard/read some great things about them. I’m sure they’re as phenomenal as many claim.

[roylor4]

Check out the Vox MV50 Clean. Great pedal platform.

These little things are truly amazing. I opted for the AC model, because it responded so well to changes with the volume knob and switching pickups and I prefer the KISS method.

Plenty of power on tap and a line out. 1 pound. 9 if you buy the mini BC108 cab as a stage monitor
.
Sounds as good as most 10's.

Try one. I think you will be amazed. i was.

[KevWind]

Originally Posted by PTony

I agree regarding the British voiced amps. I’m not opposed to using my Tweaker. In fact I’ve thought about splitting my cabs up, buying another Tweaker head and having matching rigs for stage and home use.

I have a bit more minimal rig at home pedal wise (not that my stage board is huge). And I agree “less is more”. I honestly feel I could get by with my delay, reverb, possibly a boost (ep booster?) transparent dirt, and a compressor.

At home I use a dispatch master and a tube screamer with my Tweaker and 2 Egnater 1x12’s. That’s it. And overall I’m very satisfied with the tones. The Tweaker really are fantastic amps. I’d of loved a line out, but that’s not not a huge deal I guess.

I have owned the older model V22, and the newer infinuim V22 and V55 (great headroom, but overkill...I gave it to my Father). They’re decent amps for sure. And offer a lot of features for the money. But all three of them suffered from tube rattle (which in my experience, is due to poor tube placement in relation to the speaker, although I could be wrong). And the reliability with Bugera has been spotty for me. Not that there isn’t good and bad in every manufacturer.

Maybe the answer is right in front of me. I do appreciate the input.

Seems to me if you want that tube amp sound and feel either as you say another Tweaker....... or as an add on to your pedal board (that you can runt to the church mixer) what about an actual vacuum tube, drive pedal format ? like this Rock Block link below (granted almost as expensive as a Tweaker but far more portable ) I have no experience just thinking out loud... There are some youtube video's

http://www.surprisesoundlab.com/ssl-28_006.htm

[PTony]

Originally Posted by roylor4

Check out the Vox MV50 Clean. Great pedal platform.

These little things are truly amazing. I opted for the AC model, because it responded so well to changes with the volume knob and switching pickups and I prefer the KISS method.

Plenty of power on tap and a line out. 1 pound. 9 if you buy the mini BC108 cab as a stage monitor
.
Sounds as good as most 10's.

Try one. I think you will be amazed. i was.

This interests me very much...from what I’ve read/seen (sweetwater demos/reviews) they take pedals well also.

My questions would be
1. I know it would pair with one of my 16 ohm Tweaker 1x12 cabs, but would I have enough volume to hear the cab as a monitor on the stage? We have 1 lead guitarist. One guitarist doing ambient swells and fills. One acoustic. Myself on lead rhythm/runs. Bass. Congas. Drums. Keys. And 4 support vocalist. Atm we are working on reducing stage noise and clutter. We’ve a larger stage and seem to be heading in the right direction. But, I’d need enough cab volume to cut through.

Forgive my lack of knowledge when it comes to ohms etc. but I’d read someone say that running through a 16 ohm cab it wouldn’t be very loud. To get the most volume I’d need to run through a 4 ohm cab? So am I correct assuming a 16 ohm cab would only allow 1/4 power of a 4 ohm head? Again, this is not in my wheel house so forgive my ignorance in advance.

I’d really like to look into this head. Ideally using one of my existing Tweaker cabs, but I could always look at another cab with lower ohms if necessary.

2. Also, if I run it through an extension cab I’m assuming I could still run it out to the PA. Hoping it’s not an either or option.

I’d want to put the head on my my current pedal board and run it out to our PA, while having a 1x12 cab onstage acting as a monitor.

If this option would work I could see myself selling my JDX Direct Drive (which would ALMOST pay for the vox head), along with a couple other pedals, and possibly my floor wedge.

I run a hot spot monitor on a mic stand for vocals (which my iPad attaches to for the use of OnSong), and a floor wedge that primarily has my guitar coming through it.

I was thinking I could remove the wedges if the cab/head had enough volume...

I realize that I could just run the pedal board into the head, then head to the house and use my current monitor setup without a cab, but I don’t think the guitar tones I hear through my monitor would sound as good as a cab...

I look forward to some further input/clarity on this option. This may really suit my needs.