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  #31  
Old 04-21-2017, 03:58 PM
SpruceTop SpruceTop is offline
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Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey View Post
Just for fun I decided to run the track I already posted through some post-processing. I put it through a high pass filter at 60Hz and gradual gain increase starting at around 1000Hz through 4000Hz. Then I ran it through a plate reverb at around 10% mix. Here's the original and the new.





It's kind of amazing. The sound, after effects, is not tremendously different than what I might capture by using a mic into an audio interface into my computer. I have to remind myself that this was recorded having gone through a guitar amp.
David: I hear the ToneDexter signal as sounding more natural but I think the ToneDexter recording needs a bit more volume to match the slightly louder impact the K&K-only recording has.

Do you have an LR Baggs Session DI Acoustic that you could use to do a recording of your CEO-7, with the Session DI's controls set at what you think is a pleasing tone? It would be nice to compare what the K&K/Session DI recording sounds like compared with a K&K/ToneDexterized recording.

Anyway, it sounds like the ToneDexter is a worthwhile device. Enjoy!
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  #32  
Old 04-21-2017, 04:00 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
I'm using the TD with my OM42 with K&K. It sounds great but I agree that a SBT can lack immediacy and punch, I can also make it feedback with a soundhole plug. I have an OM28 and I'm going to install a Fishman Matrix Infinity into it. I can't believe I'm going back to where I started with this pickup but I feel that it will work well with the TD and if I decide to just plug in to a board at a jam night I will still have a usable sound. Unlike the K&K which required you to keep a DI/EQ with you. James says that the mic quality and room acoustics do not matter so much. I went out last night and bought a $350 Shure SDC to make my image maps with. I'd invest in an even better one if it was proven it made a difference. Also to note, new strings do not seem to make the image map brighter.
So even with the tonedexter image, you are finding that the tone still lacks immediacy and punch with the K&K? I only ask because I was led to believe that the tonedexter would basically turn any pickup (SBT or UST) into a well mic'd guitar. It's interesting that the internal pickup still plays a significant role. I guess the one benefit of the SBT would be body taps though. It would be cool to try it with a pickup like the B-Band A2.2 XOM, which has a body sensor and UST.
  #33  
Old 04-21-2017, 04:19 PM
Marty C Marty C is offline
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Buzzardwhiskey,
Plugged your recording into my pa and it sounds great. I was listening through headphones before. The tone dexter definitely makes a difference.

Last edited by Marty C; 04-21-2017 at 04:26 PM. Reason: Wrong quote attached
  #34  
Old 04-21-2017, 04:35 PM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
David: I hear the ToneDexter signal as sounding more natural but I think the ToneDexter recording needs a bit more volume to match the slightly louder impact the K&K-only recording has.

Do you have an LR Baggs Session DI Acoustic that you could use to do a recording of your CEO-7, with the Session DI's controls set at what you think is a pleasing tone? It would be nice to compare what the K&K/Session DI recording sounds like compared with a K&K/ToneDexterized recording.

Anyway, it sounds like the ToneDexter is a worthwhile device. Enjoy!
I think you're right. The ToneDexter side has slightly less shear volume, which is HUGELY responsible for perception.

I don't have a simple pre-amp any more. All I have is the Zoom A3 (which is not straightforward at all).
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  #35  
Old 04-21-2017, 04:43 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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I have been told that the undersaddle fishman will be less prone to feedback and be 'punchier'. Since I don't do percussive playing on the body I am going to have a Matrix Infinity installed into my OM28. I'm hoping it will work even better for me.
  #36  
Old 04-21-2017, 05:04 PM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpruceTop View Post
David: I hear the ToneDexter signal as sounding more natural but I think the ToneDexter recording needs a bit more volume to match the slightly louder impact the K&K-only recording has.

Do you have an LR Baggs Session DI Acoustic that you could use to do a recording of your CEO-7, with the Session DI's controls set at what you think is a pleasing tone? It would be nice to compare what the K&K/Session DI recording sounds like compared with a K&K/ToneDexterized recording.

Anyway, it sounds like the ToneDexter is a worthwhile device. Enjoy!
Here's a version where in post processing I've carefully matched the volumes.

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  #37  
Old 04-21-2017, 05:16 PM
Petty1818 Petty1818 is offline
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Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
I have been told that the undersaddle fishman will be less prone to feedback and be 'punchier'. Since I don't do percussive playing on the body I am going to have a Matrix Infinity installed into my OM28. I'm hoping it will work even better for me.
Just to be clear, were you told that by James or did you read it somewhere else? Again, just trying to get a sense for how this effect works. I would have thought that it would give the same tone with a SBT and UST.
  #38  
Old 04-21-2017, 05:18 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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James told me this. The pickups do interact differently. I'm not quite sure how but I'd like to know myself.. the main thing is that an undersaddle won't pick up the body sounds and feedback as much which is good for me.
  #39  
Old 04-21-2017, 05:25 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey View Post

I don't have a simple pre-amp any more. All I have is the Zoom A3 (which is not straightforward at all).
In fairness, the A3 can be set up for very straight forward use. For absolute simplicity, you could always put sections 1, 2 & 3 on bypass and just use the A3's manual three band EQ, the gain knob and the volume level knob. Beyond that, the tuner, the boost pedal and the automatic feedback zapper are pretty easy to use.

Last edited by guitaniac; 04-21-2017 at 06:20 PM.
  #40  
Old 04-21-2017, 06:02 PM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by AeroUSA View Post
Here is my effort Buzzard, ToneDexter into TC PlayAcoustic for guitar reverb and vocal effects.

Using an OM-42 with K&K.

https://soundcloud.com/aaronshortuk/norwegiandexter

I am pretty thrilled with the sound but I am still getting some booming from the low notes...
That sounds darn good to me - not what I'd call booming. Are you thinking that you'll have trouble in live performance?

James did say that an SBT w/ToneDexter will be a little more feedback prone than a UST w/ToneDexter. However, he also said that an SBT w/ToneDexter will be less feedback prone than an SBT without ToneDexter.

Please let us know if you have feedback problems in difficult performance environments - or if the live sound just isn't to your liking once you've employed the necessary steps to solve a feedback problem (sweepable notch, tone controls, phase inversion).


If an SBT/w ToneDexter won't handle those worst case scenario gigs, I suppose that some folks might opt to have their instruments equipped with both an SBT and a UST. It would be easy enough to make a WaveMap for each pickup and choose whichever pickup best fits the performing environment.
  #41  
Old 04-21-2017, 07:28 PM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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I'm heading to an Irish bar now. Last time I took a Rainsong with k and k i had feedback issues.

I need to know more about this pedal so I'm taking my OM-42 and tone dexter.

At home a part of me was wishing I could blend some unaffected pickup back in for attack. I'm trying to help it by cutting bass, adding treble and using the notch. Only a live gig will tell me if I need that or not.

I do wonder why they didn't include a 'blend knob' but I'm hoping I don't need it.

I'll report back.
  #42  
Old 04-22-2017, 12:19 AM
buzzardwhiskey buzzardwhiskey is offline
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Played 8 tunes, 4 with my band and 4 solo this eve. The venue supplies a line of Fender acoustic amps, so that what I plugged the Tonedexter into.

It worked beautifully. Easy peezy.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
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  #43  
Old 04-22-2017, 02:32 AM
guitaniac guitaniac is offline
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Originally Posted by buzzardwhiskey View Post
Played 8 tunes, 4 with my band and 4 solo this eve. The venue supplies a line of Fender acoustic amps, so that what I plugged the Tonedexter into.

It worked beautifully. Easy peezy.

Sent from my SM-G925V using Tapatalk
Thanks for the report. David.

Did you need to do anything at all (invert the phase, use the sweepable notch, roll off the bass) to deal with feedback or a boominess problem?

Have you found a use for the "character" function yet (like cutting through the band mix), or does some added "character" still seem counterproductive for your personal taste in tone and your live performance needs?
  #44  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:47 AM
AeroUSA AeroUSA is offline
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I really enjoyed the set up last night. My monitor was one of the mini nejringer things but the sound was good. I didn't have as much boominess as I do at home, my monitor speakers are possibly too close the the wall or something.

The boost works well but for some songs I actually went into bypass mode and used the raw pickup for solos, this is handy!

I actually liked the bypassed sound a lot more than I ever have. I still find the K&K to lack punch in the bass. I think I'll enjoy the TD even more with an undersaddle pickup. We will have to see. Planning using it again over the weekend and next week with the undersaddle pickup.
  #45  
Old 04-22-2017, 08:52 AM
Vancebo Vancebo is offline
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Good reports guys. Keep them coming. It sounds as if Tonedexter is doing exactly what it's supposed to do.

As I read comments, it reminds me of all the discussion on the forum about my guitar only louder concept. If your guitar was only louder, it wouldn't always cut through a mix satisfactorily. It is a great place to start...you get a great sound set flat. It's a pretty good place to be.
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